Re: Paternoster in Kerno (no joke, this time!) was Re: exetra.

--- Lars Henrik Mathiesen <thorinn@...> wrote:
> > Date:         Sat, 7 Sep 2002 15:07:13 -0700
> > From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>
>
> > Preverbs and enclitics have no effect on this
> > ablaut
> > shift: doandmetínosels (send em on over to us) /
> > doandmithyámuslisels (we'll send em on over to
> > them).
> > And _yes_, there IS a verb in that tangle!:
> >
> > do = to                       \   All that
> > a = towards                    >  makes a conj-
> > nd = em (third pl. object pron/   ug. pvb.
> > mit(h) = verbal root; aspiration due to following
> > vowel
> > ya = subjunctive / hortative stem
> > mus = 1pl ending
> > lis = 3pl. (indirect object)
> > els = 3pl. (direct object)
>
> Hmmm... is the object pronoun in the preverb
> supposed to match the
> indirect object of the verb itself, or is it
> fossilized somehow?
There used to be a whole set, so the answer is: at one
time, they did match; but not anymore.

sing. 1     -m
      2     -s, -d/-t
      3m/f  -a(n)
      3n    -d

pl.   1     -n(n)
      2     -w
      3     -a, -nd

Anymore, you only find -m as a fossilised 1s with the
preverbs co and do, and -nd for everything else. [You
see that a lot when I write "domay" = I have / there
is to me; or "domoliasotme!" = it came as a shock to
me. do+m+ay = to+me+(there) is; do+m+oliasot+me =
to+me+[it put in the barrel (with the cat and the
badger)]+me. The change was thought to have happened
by the 12th or 13th century, when the enclitic
pronouns are first used and thereafter take a rapid
foothold.

Anciently, any preverb could support up to two
pronouns (a direct and an indirect pronoun) and if
there were two or more preverbs, each could
theoretically take two pronouns. (!!) A simple verb,
like paravlar, speak, required a "null preverb" if it
were to take any pronouns: eremparavlassit = she spoke
to me. Er, on, az, be and go were common null
preverbs.
Er was the original or native null preverb; the others
came via poetic usage. On and be are thought to have
have been influenced by Saxon forms; go by Gaelic.

In the modern language, only in, de, do, ad and co can
support pronouns. Null preverbs are considered extinct
in the modern language, though they're still found in
archaising modes. And poetry, of course. Due to its
intrinsic dative nature, do (to, at) can only take an
indirect pronoun.

The pronouns are never changed by mutating preverbs.
So: cosbaravlo (I speak to thee), not consparavlo.

Now, conjugated prepositions are still found,
especially in writing. They're identical to the
conjugated preverbs, but are obviously found before
nouns rather than verbs. In this case, the pronoun is
considered to be a possessive rather than an object
pronoun. So, comeziomus pos 'l tew domu = let's eat at
thy house; where pos = po (at) + -s (thy). There is no
restriction on which preposition may be conjugated.
"Tew" is redundant, but is also usually found
reenforcing the conjugated preposition.

> Perhaps you could expand doandmetínosels and show
> how it works...
OK.

do     preverb = to
a(d)   preverb = towards
nd     object pronoun
met    verbal root (send)
í      direct command, 2s
nos    indirect object pronoun
els    direct object pronoun

Send it on over to us!

The enclitic pronouns are:

           direct   indirect
sing.  1   -me      -mi
       2   -te      -ti
       3m  -el      -li
       3f  -al      -li
       3n  -el/-lo  -lo

plural 1   -ni(s)   -nos
       2   -vi(s)   -vos
       3m  -els     -lis
       3f  -als     -lis
       3n  -los     -los

Thus: damilo = give me it; dalime = give her me;
leiyamuslisal = let's read it (her) to them. The
indirect pronoun comes first, the direct last.

The ess added to -ni and -vi are "of uncetain
provenance". The ess doesn't seem to have any function
and sometimes shows up, sometimes not. Though it would
be logical to use it as a liaison before a vowel, it
isn't so required.

It is most usual to find these pronouns reinforced by
the nouns they refer to: dondleiyasnosel, lê sezlón =
"go on, read it to us, the story!"

> Lars Mathiesen (U of Copenhagen CS Dep)
> <thorinn@...> (Humour NOT marked)
Padraic.


=====
parla, mays ben parla; et pharleir becko il maboun.

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