Re: Names for derivative forms - request for comments PLEASE :)

At 11:32 09/03/00 -0300, you wrote:
>Eric Christopherson <raccoon@...> wrote:
>
>>The basic concept behind the associative category is that it's an object or
>>possibly a person which is in some *unspecified* way associated with the
>>action of the verb. Mainly it'd be used for something that didn't fit into
>>any other categories.
>
>OK -- which means it's gonna have to be lexically specified.
>(Otherwise one could imagine many things.)
>
Ah... the strong pleasures of grammatical ambiguity... Am I the only one to
find this nice? :)))

>>could be "something which is intended to be eaten." (BTW, did you invent
>>that phrase, or is it someone else's? I've heard of _nomen agentis_
>>and -_actionis_ before but not that one.)
>
>I think I saw _nomen patientis_ somewhere, but in fact
>I made it up on the fly by analogy. I have no idea about
>Latin declensions, but it sounded right...
>
Patiens, patientis, it's all right (I suppose you have agens, agentis :) ),
3nd declination noun, quite a common ending...

>
>>> >Occasion
>>> >        -Refers to a larger occasion surrounding or connected to the
>>> >        action/event
>>> Isn't this the same as the resultative?
>>
>>Not exactly. This refers to some sort of "bigger" event surrounding a
>>smaller one, as a wedding is a large ceremony centered around the act of
>>people getting married, but also including other elements. I actually got
>>the idea for it a day or so before I read about something like this in
>>Spanish, oddly enough. For those of you who don't speak Spanish, when you
>>say "Where is the test?" (meaning where will the test be administered) you
>>would use the verb <ser> for "to be," whereas if you were asking the
>>location of the actual paper the test is printed on you would use <estar>.
>
>
>Now that you point it out, yes. For occasions (a wedding,
>party, a test), you use _ser_; for actual objects, _estar_.
>But I can't imagine many contrasting pairs like 'the test'
>you mention. For a wedding, one has to use _ser_; asking
>where the wedding is using _estar_ would sound as if one
>had gone to a given address and the wedding party had been
>swept away by a strong wind or something. :)
>
Well, you never know... With the storm we had in France between Christmas
and New Year, everything could have been possible :)))

                                                Christophe Grandsire
                                                |Sela Jemufan Atlinan C.G.

"Reality is just another point of view."

homepage : http://rainbow.conlang.org
(ou : http://www.bde.espci.fr/homepages/Christophe.Grandsire/index.html)