Re: I need an artist ::: and articles
| From: | Rhialto <rhialto@...> |
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| Date: | Wednesday, January 20, 1999, 23:02 |
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>>>>vowels
Ok, lets try again, and this time I will try to remember that english is a
wonderful *set* of languages.
--------------------
/ae/ /e/ /I/ /O/ /u/ (u is standing in for top-bottom flipped omega
(schwa))
/a:/ /3:/ /i:/ /O:/ /U:/ (O is a left to right flipped c)
/aI/ /eI/ /OI/
/au/ /e:/ /ou/ (@ is an e flipped top to bottom)
---------------------
cat bed sit hot put (these are the words glossed in the OED)
arm her see saw too
my day boy
how hair no
---------------------
a e i o u (my romanisations)
ar er ii or uu (alternate: aa, eu, ii, ou, uu)
ai ei oi
au ee oo
---------------------
row 1 are short vowels
row 2 are /e:/ are simple long vowels.
row 3 are unrounded dipthongs
/au/ and /@u/ are rounded lip dipthongs.
Yeah, I fell into the Roman alphabet fallacy when I placed EE on row 4
instead of row 2. Mea Culpa.
[disclaimer: I dont really know ascii IPA, this is an attempt to duplicate
the symbols in the OED as closely as possible. It'll probably just confuse
you as much as all my other ramblings.]
Two items (/i:/ and /U:/) have been moved up 2 rows. First row is short
vowels, 2nd long, 3rd and 4th dipthongs - according to the OED anyway. In
any discussions, caps refers to romanised Demua, /ipa/ refers to IPA ascii
(as I understand it anyway).
>OK - I'll try. From your email address you obviously from the same side of
>the pond as I am, so the 'o' in 'hot' is [O] and not the American [A].
yep
>Also from the second row it's pretty clear that the {r} is silent as
>post-vocalic {r} is generally in SE England. So harp = [hA:p], and you
>make it clear that {or} and {aw} have the same sound, i.e. [O:].
yep
>You list 'hair' as a diphthong. I pronounce it [hE:] and I get the
>impression that you speak basically the same variety of English as I do.
>Some authorities do give it as [hE@], it is true, but as you have no other
>diphthongs ending in [@] I'm assuming this really [E:], i.e. a long vowel.
>If I understand you correctly, then we have:
yep, it is a single long vowel
>short: [&] [E] [I] [O] [U]
> hat bed hit hot put
>long: [A:] [E:] [@:] [i:] [O:] [u:]
> harp hair her heat saw too
>diph. [aI] [eI] [OI]
> my day boy
>diph. [aU] [oU]
> how hope
A E I O U = short vowels
AR EE ER II OR UU = long vowels
AI EI OI = dipthongs
AU OO = rounded dipthongs
So your only change is to move ER from row 4 to row 2? That makes sense.
Row 4 rounds the lips, the others are unrounded. Rows 2,3,4 are all double
length vowels.
>There seems to be a gap, so to speak, in the short vowel row. I'd expect
>[@] (a in about) or [V] (u in but) to be there.
Those two are represented by A in Demua. As I originally noted, A and U
cover several sounds, the ones listed are merely the most typical.
/V/ as in run is A
/@/ as in ago is A
>I've given phonetic notation. I suspect that the first two rows are
>possibly intended to be phonemically:
>
>short: /a/ /E/ /i/ /O/ /u/
> long: /a:/ /E:/ /@:/ /i:/ /O:/ /u:/
>
>The diphthongs seem a bit sparse.
Not unintentionally so. I simply did not want to have a complete grid in the
vowel table.
>I'm wondering if we should not only accept the [E@] analysis of 'hair' but
>also analyze 'part' as [pA@t] and 'saw' as [sO@].
Definitely not. They should all be one vowel lengthened. In retrospect, EE
should not have been in the last row. king hanang zimmon ee (What was I
saying?)
[snip]
[snip weird table that I dont even pretend to understand, but I suspect it
is wrong based on some false assumptions from earlier.]
I cant help feeling that II has been misinterpreted (see earlier comments).
It should be /i:/ in IPA.
Same for EE, AR, ER and OR. /e:/ /a:/ /@:/ /o:/. While a Demuan would
understand the schwa-ed versions, it would definitely the speaker as a
foreigner. These are long vowels, not dipthongs.
UU or 'too' should be /u:/. Not a dipthong, but understandable when spoken
as one.
---
Rhialto
PS: please dont reply to both me and the list. It only confuses me :)