Re: Arabic Questions

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:51:09 EDT, David Peterson <ThatBlueCat@...>
wrote:

>The distinction between "aywa" and "na'am" is the same distinction (about)
>between "yeah" and "yes".
>
>As for how to pronounce ayn, maybe this will help:
>
>The "ee" in "meet" [i] is to the "y" in "yellow" [j],
>as the "oo" in "boot" [u] is to the "w" in "white" [w],
>as the "a" in "father" [A] is to the letter "'ayn".
I understand that [j] and [w] are the same as [i_^] and [u_^] (so that [j]
will have a slight friction since [i] has some friction). So you're saying
that [?\] is the same as [A_^]? That's interesting and matches quite well
what my ears have perceived.

==============================================================

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 05:48:29 EDT, David Peterson <ThatBlueCat@...>
wrote:

>Christian wrote:
>
><<That's a description of the voiced h, i.e. [h\].  The
>[?\], on the other hand, has a constriction at the
>adam's apple.>>
>
>No, no.   My description was of a pharyngeal approximant (which is the
>sound of Arabic 'ayin--not a fricative in any way).   The sound [A] is
>produced by lowering your tongue and moving the back of it towards
>the pharynx.   To make Arabic 'ayin, you just move it further back.   A
>glottal [h] is made without the tongue doing anything; a voiced one
>is the same save for the vibrating of the vocal folds.
Maybe your misunderstanding is based on you two having different notions of
the open back unrounded vowel [A], that is, Christian might think of it
having in mind the Züritüütsch example, while David might think of it
having in mind the English example. I'm not accusing anyone of being
unaware that the IPA/X-SAMPA/CXS vowels are intended to be describe
absolute qualities, but I just think we can't help being conditioned by our
native languages.

>One might think that a glottal fricative is the sound being described
>because any language that has a glottal fricative usually has as many
>allophones for that glottal fricative as there are vowels, because the
>reflex of the glottal fricative is usually a voiceless version of the vowel
>it precedes.
Voiceless glottal? I think this was about voiced pharyngeal. ??

>This is why a sound like the pharyngeal "h" of Arabic actually
>does pop up in English--before the vowel /A/, when it's truly pronounced
>as [A].
In absolute initial position, that is?

g_0ry@_^s:
j. 'mach' wust