Re: TRANSLATION: Grandfather and the dragon

taliesin the storyteller wrote:

> > If you've got the equipment, Tal, and I know you do! <G> it would be
> > easier for me to conceptualize this if you made a realplayer file
> > (.ra, not .rm!) and read it.  This is so hard to contain in my head.
>=20
> I don't have realproducer, but I could make a .wav or .mp3... ;)
I can hear wave files with my Real Player.  Say, can you hear my
files with your equipment? ;-)  Love some feedback!  And I don't
mean that bleating audio feedback!! (netscape, back up it is, yes?)

I made a birthday webcard for my Dad last weekend, and Chris and I
(my husband) thought it would be funny to "whistle" his birthday
greeting into my producer.  Well, it sounded fine except for the
fact that any breath on the microphone sounds like a tornado.

> > Where is the concept "my" expressed in your
> > language?
>=20
> I thought it implicit and unnecessary. Whose gramps could it be?
The god's grandfather.  The eponic hero's grandfather (that is, if
there is an eponic hero!).  Okay, you win.  Makes sense! ;-)
=20
> 'my', if the thing is animate, is <te>. If the thing is inanimate,
> you use a genitive-construction. A have-construction is also a
> possibility.
Or a preposition (if you have those): the friend with you, etc.
Much discussed already several months ago.

>=20
> te tci
> my friend
>=20
> u: te tci
> tci te u:
> your friend (NB! u: =3D 2nd person singular)
>=20
> tciru u:es
> You have a friend
> (A friend is located relative to you)
>=20
> brene=F0
> my car
>=20
> u:ev brene=F0
> your car
>=20
> <-ev> and <-e=F0> are the genitive-markers, possessor-possessed.
>=20
> sa:es brenru
> I have a car
> (A car is loacted relative to me)
>=20
> As you can see, most of the time the first person singular pronoun is
> implicit.
Yes!
=20

> /snip more on experiencers/
> > > When the experiencer-verb only governs a phrase and not a new sente=
nce,
> > > that phrase is marked with the benefactive (BEN).
> > >
> > > Example:
> > > sa:el a:r         u:  te=EC  i:a=FE
> > > I-EXP thinks.that you love he/she-PAT   (PAT patient)
>=20
> To make matters sligthly clearer:
>=20
> I-EXP thinks.that (you love he/she-PAT)
>=20
> This is the primary use of experiencer-verbs, the BEN-use is a side-
> effect, though a nice one.
>=20
> > > u:el    te=EC  i:i=F0
> > > you-EXP love he/she-BEN
> >
> > This is actually very much like Tokana, which I think is patterning
> > itself in this instance after several active languages that put the
> > subject of "experiencer" verbs in the dative.
>=20
> Humm, isn't the beloved an 'object of affectations' and not a subject
> of same?
Affectations or affections?  I can see how lovers may succumb to
affectations
from time to time, though!  <GGGGGGG>  All kidding aside, yes of course.
But I thought your Beneficiary was an oblique case like a dative.  In
Tokana, I think you say:  To me feels blue ("I'm feeling blue").  It's
an awful lot like the OE impersonal verbs (which I thing derive from
a similar construction):  "It rues to me."  I regret something.  "It
seems
to me."  I think.  But perhaps I misunderstand your BEN.

> :)
>=20
> > Interesting language, Taliesin.  Again, what do you call it?
>=20
> Thanks, and the name is ta:ruven. It's my main (read: only) conlanging-
> project, the reason why I'm on this list in the first place.
Well, you and I together.  I should put up a link to ta:ruven.  I notice
you've got an ancient race called the "winged ones."  How like Teonaht
as well!  They base a lot of their mythology on the "feleonim," who were
supposed to be a long-dead race of winged felines (although I've recast
the word that I originally drew from "feline" to mean "beautiful goers,"
i.e., "flyers.")  And "Teon" seems to mean "flight," as in "retreat,
running."
Whether on foot or by wings, it's unclear.

Sally=20
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SALLY CAVES
scaves@frontiernet.net
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves (bragpage)
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/teonaht.html (T. homepage)
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/contents.html (all else)
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/teoreal.html (all else with music)
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Niffodyr tweluenrem lis teuim an.
"The gods have retractible claws."
                                from _The Gospel of Bastet_
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