Re: Ashamed of [T]? (fy: /T/ -> /t_d/?)

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:47:31 -0500, Roger Mills <rfmilly@...> wrote:

>Mark Reed/Sally Caves wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 10:58:25AM -0500, Sally Caves wrote:
>> > Much "eastern" Latin American Spanish drops final "s," I find.  Among
>> > the Puerto Ricans, I think, and also the Argentinians.  (Am I
>> > correct?). So that often I'll hear buena noche for buenas noches.  Is
>> > it also a Cuban trait?  (it makes comprehension fiendish for me).
>>
>> Yup.  It's not quite dropped, though; it's said to be "aspirated", and
>> turns into an [h] - but for most native English speakers, a final [h]
>> might as well be silent.  "Hasta luego!" comes out as [,ahta'lweGo] in
>> normal speech.  In rapid speech I'm convinced the [h] does disappear
>> utterly, and the [G] softens even more until it's an approximant instead
>> of a fricative, but I have no idea how one would write that in CXS vel
>> sim.
>
>That is all true. In unstressed syllables it does tend to disappear, so
>"estaba" > [e'taBa].
The many YA?PTs should have showed that assertions of this kinds are mostly
wrong except for specific dialects. In Entre Ríos, Argentina, the aspiration
doesn't disappear in these specific surroundings.

>I recall a story read years ago that used New Mexican
>dialect-- "está" was always "ta". Apparently the only area where final
>(plural) -s is totally dropped (with change in the preceding vowel quality)
>is Andalucia; this must have taken place in the last 50 years-- when I was
>there in 1954, -s was definitely aspirated, my first and perplexing
>encounter with that after years of correctly pronounced Sp. in high school
>and college.
I guess it was just a different region of Andalucía.

g_0ry@s:
j. 'mach' wust