Re: Ashamed of [T]? (fy: /T/ -> /t_d/?)

Mark Reed/Sally Caves wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 10:58:25AM -0500, Sally Caves wrote:
> > Much "eastern" Latin American Spanish drops final "s," I find.  Among
> > the
> > Puerto Ricans, I think, and also the Argentinians.  (Am I correct?).  So
> > that often I'll hear buena noche for buenas noches.  Is it also a Cuban
> > trait?  (it makes comprehension fiendish for me).
>
> Yup.  It's not quite dropped, though; it's said to be "aspirated", and
> turns
> into an [h] - but for most native English speakers, a final [h] might as
> well be silent.  "Hasta luego!" comes out as [,ahta'lweGo] in normal
> speech.  In rapid speech I'm convinced the [h] does disappear utterly,
> and the [G] softens even more until it's an approximant instead of a
> fricative, but I have no idea how one would write that in CXS vel sim.
>
That is all true. In unstressed syllables it does tend to disappear, so
"estaba" > [e'taBa]. I recall a story read years ago that used New Mexican
dialect-- "está" was always "ta". Apparently the only area where final
(plural) -s is totally dropped (with change in the preceding vowel quality)
is Andalucia; this must have taken place in the last 50 years-- when I was
there in 1954, -s was definitely aspirated, my first and perplexing
encounter with that after years of correctly pronounced Sp. in high school
and college.

> The numbers provide lots of practice for keeping [s]s and [T]s
> straight, with entries like "sesenta y cinco", "cincuenta y siete",
> etc.
Yes, sequences of [T] and [s] are difficult; likewise [T] and [D] as in
"decidido" :-))
>
> > But I produce spoonerisms, too, in my native language.  Kelen Heller.
> > (I almost typed that below!)
>
Two that are a permanent part of my vocab are "Hoobert Heever" and "James
[k]ennimore Fooper", thanks to an eccentric HS English teacher, a
Down-Easter of distinguished lineage, Harvard grad et al.
He also pronounced "drama" as ['dr&m@] but that didn't catch on.

> Yeah, I used to fake-type in class when I was bored in high school -
> usually graffiti...
In her mid-Alzheimerish dotage, my mother, at restaurants, would work
imaginary crossword puzzles on the table-top.........

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