Re: Ashamed of [T]? (fy: /T/ -> /t_d/?)

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:44:23 +0000, Jan van Steenbergen
<ijzeren_jan@...> wrote:
>
>> When the reason given is that [T] is a mark of 'speech defect', it
>> seems to me just a little insulting to those members of this list
>> who do have various physical disfunctions.
>
>Again, I didn't say that. What I said, is that [T], when used in a
>language that does not have it, is *perceived* as a speech defect by
>some people, myself not included, and that this perception may even
>be generalised to *all* languages by some fools, again myself not
>included).
Don't include me either! However, I wouldn't call these people 'fools',
since the reason why they generalize this view on other languages is just a
lack of knowledge of other languages. I imagine that these effects are best
to be explained in terms of peer pressure (e.g. among pupils) or in terms of
prejudices, that is, "disgusting" parts of human nature.

It's similar with the uvular [X]. People who don't speak a language with
this sound often don't like it. There are common jokes that this sound is a
throat disease and must hurt if pronounced correctly.

>> I agree entirely with Joe. "Disgusted" does have very strong
>> connotations - and to someone of my generation, I regret to say,
>> Pascal's sentiments seem rather disturbing.
>
>Unless it was merely a matter of a non-native speaker using a word
>the wrong way, I agree.
Which wouldn't surprise me, since I think this word is a typical faux ami.
The connotation it gives to me is of |dis|: 'negation', |gust|: 'like' (as
in Spanish 'gusta'); that is |disgust|: 'not-like'. I confess I was
surprised of the harsh reactions and learned only then that the main meaning
of 'disgust' is much stronger than I thought it was, corresponding rather to
German _Ekel, Abscheu_ than to _Abstoss, Widerwillen_. (Only then I realized
that I already knew the word _disgusting_ with the correct connotation!)

g_0ry@s:
j. 'mach' wust