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TRANS: Happiness (& a question for Christophe)

From:Yoon Ha Lee <yl112@...>
Date:Friday, October 26, 2001, 20:29
On Friday, October 26, 2001, at 05:02 , Henrik Theiling wrote:

(Christophe, a question for you or other native French speakers is buried
under "yna," below...)

> Yoon Ha Lee <yl112@...> writes: >> cevan [tSevan]: "happiness" (the most general form) >> >> related substantives: >> >> icevan [itSevan]: "joy, happiness" >> ycevan [i"tSevan]: "hope" >> acevan [atSevan]: "contentment, fulfillment" >> >> ferun [pferun]: "search" >> >> related substantives >> >> iferun [ipferun]: "invention, creation" >> yferun [i"pferun]: "search, quest" >> aferun [apferun]: "finding, discovery" > > Nice! Is the mechanism of prefixing i-, y- and a- totally regular? > If so, what are the functions of these affixes? >
Yes--well, not totally regular, but pretty darn close. I came up with an irregularity in the pronoun system: na [na]: "pronoun" related substantives: nia [nia]: 1st person yna [i"na]: impersonal or uncertain pronoun na [na]: personal or certain pronoun This is related in idea to the personal vs. impersonal distinction in Czevraqis, though Czevraqis is nicer and only makes that distinction in the 3rd person; it has perfectly normal 1st and 2nd person pronouns (other than some irregular case forms). Tasratal gloms the 2nd and 3rd persons together. Examples: yna: - could be used as "who?" - to address someone you're not familiar with (but not quite as obviously rude as "hey, you over there...") - to refer to "peripheral" objects or events that come up in the course of the conversation - to refer to people who aren't present (mostly equivalent to 3rd person, but if you're giving generic directions, say in a cookbook or something, it might be translated as a 2nd person--I think of this as similar to the French use of the infinitive-as-imperative, if I remember correctly--Christophe?) na (the non-generic form): - to address someone you know - often to address people who are present - to refer to people who aren't present but who are the focus of conversation, or about whom the speaker feels/thinks strongly - to give directions to specific people I know, it's horrendously fuzzy, but in a lot of ways this is a fuzzy sorta language. Okay, to answer your question at last: Substantives have a "generic" form, e.g. <ferun> [pferun] or <cevan> [tSevan]. You might consider it the superset of the specific forms. The three specific forms are derived by adding a prefix: i(l) ([i] before a consonant, [il] before a vowel): demand/discovery form y(l) ([i"] before a consonant, [i"l] before a vowel): uncertain/speculative form a(l) ([a] before a consonant, [al] before a vowel): status quo/state form Again, horrendously fuzzy. I use the symbols ! ? . to guide the semantics. Hence, for <ferun> it becomes ! invent, create ? search, quest . find, discovery (I haven't been consistent in keeping the English definitions all nouns, but since you can verb-ize these nouns using the causative particles, I figure it's no big deal.)
> I'm still on my quest for particles in Tyl-Sjok for forming nice > derivations of stems I already have. >
:-) I'm sure it will be quite a fruitful and interesting quest! Tasratal being pretty new, I think it has a total of less than 10 existing substantives (content as opposed to function words, I guess). Let us know what you come up with, ja? YHL


Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>
Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>