Re: CHAT: mental masturbation

Marcos Franco wrote:

>How do you say "mental masturbation" in your conlang?
>
>In UTL it would be said "mentala masturbio", though having -at- as
>passive suffix, I was wondering what could mean "masturbatio" in
>UNL. It would mean literally "the action of being masturbated", but
>since masturbate/masturbi is a reflexive verb (by definition) this
>would make not much sense in a logical language like UTL. Btw, I
>could not logically say "to masturbate another person" as masturbi
>is reflexive. Btw, do you say in English "I masturbate" or "I
>masturbate myself"?
>
>Well, as we have seen some problems may get aroused with the verb
>masturbate if we let it reflexive, so I think it's better having it
>defined as transitive and let no reflexive verbs in UTL. But how
>can "masturbate" be transitive if its definition is "to provide
>oneself sexual pleasure"?
>
>I'm afraid this is becoming another mental masturbation...
I believe the problem arises because the verb masturbate is indeed
inherently reflexive, and I think inherently reflexive words cannot
be passive at the same time. I'm not sure about this but I think
that in many ways, the reflexive functions like voice much as the
passive does, and one cannot afterall have two voices in a verb at
the same time - that is, one cannot have a verb that is both active
and passive at the same time, nor can one have a verb that is both
passive and reflexive at the same time.

I can't think of many words in English that are like that
(inherently reflexive), but there are quite a lot in Tagalog and
Boreanesian (my conlang). In fact, these two languages do not mark
voice at all in verbs.

Below are some examples from Tagalog and Boreanesian (respectively):

<ligo> <pLau?>
"washing oneself"

<hilamos> <Lka?>
"freshening oneself after waking up (e.g. by washing one's face)"

<hinga> <psih>
"relieving oneself (as in resting or relaxing)"

[where <L> marks a lateral fricative, and <?> marks stiff phonation
and/or a glottal stop]

In Boreanesian, though, <pLau?> <Lka?> and <psih> are better glossed
as nouns. That is, "one who washes oneself", "one who refreshes
oneself", and "one who relieves oneself" respectively. So if I were
to use <pLau?> in a simple sentence:

pLau?                     kih
[one who washes oneself]  [1.]
lit. "I'm the one who washes myself"
"I wash myself"

I guess, I have yet to make a word for masturbation though. Such a
word would have to be glossed as a noun too, with a reflexive
inclination. Perhaps, <nnieh> "one who gives oneself sexual
pleasures". Yes, that sounds right. Oh the joy of creating a new
word!

-kristian- 8-)