Re: Basque bizarreries (was: Conland Digest etc.)

OK, now the meanings of -tzat and -entzat look quite
clear to me. In fact, I wouldn't consider -entzat like
a 'surdeclined' form (possessive genitive +
prolative), but like a form of its own. I cannot
analyse something like *Norentzat dira hauek ?* like
including any genitive in it, even a possessive one,
and even if historically it may have been so.

But I was optimistic when fancying that I could think
the Basque way, even for such a simple sentence as *I
work as an engineer*. I'll have to study some more
years to get to it :-(

To me, the fact that it is so difficult to guess how
it could be expressed in Basque (and even to
understand the logic of it when you see it written) is
clearly a proof of the natlang influence on the way of
thinking.

--- Javier BF <uaxuctum@...> wrote:
>
> Some more examples:
>
> -tzat
>
> "GalduTZAT eman" (To give up for lost)
> "TontoTZAT eduki" (To have for an idiot, to consider
> an idiot)
> "TontoTZAT hartu naute" (They have taken me for an
> idiot)
> "OnTZAT hartu" (To take as good, to accept
> something)
> "ZuTZAT hartu nau" (He took me for you)
> "Zure alabaTZAT hartu nuen" (I had taken her for
> your daughter)
> "AintzakoTZAT hartu" (To take into consideration,
> lit. to take as
> worthy of consideration)
>
> -(r)entzat
>
> "NorENTZAT dira hauek?" (Whom [sg.] are these for?)
> "NortzuENTZAT da hori?" (Whom [pl.] is that for?)
> "ZenbatENTZAT da tarta hau?" (How many people is
> this cake for?)
> "Pastel hori umeaRENTZAT da" (This pastry is for the
> child)
> "Hau lagunENTZAT da" (This is for friends)
> "Gela hau hirurENTZAT da" (This room is for three,
> this room hosts three)
> "GuztiENTZAT dago" (There's [enough] for all)
> "ZuENTZAT ez dut ezer ekarri" (I haven't carried
> anything for you [pl.])
> "Jende askoRENTZAT balio du" (It is useful for many
> people)
> "Hau biRENTZAT da" (This is for two)
> "Opari hau biENTZAT da" (This present is for both,
> lit. for the two [of
> them])
>
>
> >Ja rabotaju injenierom = I work as an engineer.
> >I guess Basques would say: by-me is worked
> >engineer-tzat ? (If that's the case, I would be
> very
> >proud to begin to think like a real Basque :-) )
>
> Well, the actual translation is a bit different:
> "Ingeniaritzat
> lan egiten dut" (as-engineer work in-doing
> I-have-it)
>
> Cheers,
> Javier

=====
Philippe Caquant

"Le langage est source de malentendus."
(Antoine de Saint-Exupery)

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