From: "Peter Clark" <peter-clark@...>
Subject: Re: retroflex consonants
> On Monday 27 January 2003 10:58 pm, Joseph Fatula wrote:
> > (someone made a list of some natlang retroflex sounds which included
this)
> >
> > > > American English (r)
> >
> > Is this sound actually retroflex? As I understood it, the term
"retroflex"
> > meant a sound where the tongue was pointing at the back of the mouth.
The
> > /r/ (roof) in American English has the tongue definitely pointing to the
> > front of the mouth, with the contact being between the middle of the
tongue
> > and the palate above, just forwards of where it contacts for /j/ (you).
>
> I hope you appreciate this post; I'm violating one of my cardinal
tenants:
I don't know about the laws where you live, but around here, violating one
of your tenants is a pretty serious matter. A tenet, on the other hand, can
be violated with considerably fewer legal ramifications.
> Never Encourage A English-Pronunciation Thread. :) But yes, "retroflex"
does
> mean that the tip of the tongue points toward the back of the mouth and
yes,
> American English has a retroflex r (at least all the varieties I am
familiar
> with; I wouldn't be surprised if there was a dialect on the East Coast
that
> liked to be different--you know how they are there...)
I don't know about that, but I have noticed that all you westerners have
funny ways of saying things. (Like anywhere past the Ohio/Penna border.)
> So, either you flap or trill your r's, like Spanish, or you
haven't been
> playing in front of a mirror long enough. ;>
> :Peter
No, it's definitely an approximant, and it's certainly not retroflex.
What I've generally considered regarding How Do You Pronounce This In Your
Dialect? threads is that they're fine, so long as there's actually some
useful linguistic feature being discussed beyond simply, "there are
different ways of doing it". I'm interested in retroflex consonants, and
being told that I already had one threw me for a loop. What I'm really
wondering is if there are any dialects of English where retroflex r and
non-retroflex r are phonemic. Are there any languages like that?