Re: Jackson's "Elvish"

Sally Caves <scaves@...> writes:

>
> Could any Quenya expert make out the
> chanting?  The words spoken--briefly--by
> Arwen and Aragorn?  Does anyone have
> the score on CD?
Others have already referred you to the site where these are discussed. One minor
quibble.Arwen and Aragorn dont speak Quenya to each other, in fact, Quenya is
hardly used in the movie..and with good reason...since it was not the daily
language of Middle-Earth, Sindarin was.

> Who has seen it multiple times? <G>
I've seen it twice.

[snip]
> Is this
> the only sustained use of the Black Speech that
> Tolkien offers?  What does he say about it?
> All languages spring from the original language
> of the elves, so this must be a mutilated form.
Neep...hmm, not all languages spring from Proto-Eldarin. In the Lhammas (found in HoMe:
The Lost Road), Tolkien discusses the descent and interelationships of
Middle-Earth. Elven languages either originally come from Valarin, the language
of the Gods, (the original concept), or it is a seperate language created by
the first elves (the concept that is accepted today, AFAIK). Black Speech is
the speech INVENTED by Sauron, or Morgoth (not sure, but probably Sauron), for
his legions. Thus it is the only known conlang in Middle-Earth (since Elven
Languages were nat-langs).

Also, there is one or two other sentences that Tolkien gives..the Ork curse is an
important example. Probably found on the website below.

> Easy deduction:  where Elvish is all liquids and
> voiced stops, the Black Speech is all voiceless
> stops and gutterals.  Where Elvish offers open
> syllables, the Black Speech is full of consonant
> clusters.  Tolkien's sense of beautiful and ugly
> speaking--deformed elves, deformed language.
> I'll admit, though, that I'm fascinated by the speech
> of Mordor and wonder what work has been done
> on it, if there is more of it, that is.

Go here:
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/orkish.htm

It's a website from Ardalambion which is the most indepth site on the web. There
are others, but I can't find any at the moment.


Elliott

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