Re: Yet another ASCII-IPA scheme...

On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:30:49 -0500, Herman Miller <hmiller@...> wrote:

>On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 21:54:03 +0100, Jörg Rhiemeier
><joerg.rhiemeier@...> wrote:
>
>>I have read in more than one source that laterals are always coronal,
>>and I have no idea how to produce a velar lateral either.  Are you sure
>>about it really being a *velar* lateral?  Many phoneticists judge a
>>velar lateral impossible, give or take an IPA symbol for it.
>>But well, one can add symbols for palatal and velar laterals,
>>no problem.
>
>It's way too far back to be a palatal lateral. It does seem like it might
>be articulated differently than the other velar sounds. If I try to produce
>a stop in the same position, it doesn't sound quite like [g], but it's
>closer to that than [J\]. Since IPA doesn't distinguish any points of
>articulation between palatal and velar, it's probably best just to call it
>a velar lateral.
>
>
>>>       It doesn't
>>> contrast phonemically with a velarized "l", but it doesn't sound like
>>> one either (more like a cross between "l" and the American "r" sound;
>>> I think I actually used "lr" as a romanized spelling).
>>
>>Well, all of my attempts producing a velar lateral ended up yielding
>>a velarized one.  Your `cross between "l" and the American "r" sound'
>>would probably be a co-articulation of both, i.e. a velarized lateral.
>
>The tongue tip doesn't touch anywhere in the Devérrin sound.
FWIW, I can produce what I'm pretty sure is a velar lateral, air escaping
on the sides and no apical contact as Herman mentioned. I hadn't known
about it before this, but it didn't take long to get it. Although both
voiced and voiceless versions seem to be fricative. And it doesn't sound
very much like an 'r'.
It may be that it's not used or contrastive in any documented NatLang.

Jeff