Re: Conreligion

> ----------
> From:         Matt Pearson[SMTP:mpearson@UCLA.EDU]
> Reply To:     Constructed Languages List
> Sent:         Friday, November 06, 1998 2:07 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list CONLANG
> Subject:      Re: Conreligion
>
> Sheets, Jeff wrote:
>
> > Certainly there are going to eventually be discordant voices (such
> as
> > mine) who start preaching of an apocalyptic time when the Old Eagle
> > Woman "gives up on us".  These people could then start acting like
> the
> >
> > Old Eagle Woman has contacted them, with the intention that there be
> > many sacrifices in her honor.  I cannot envision a place where every
> > single person believes the same thing, and they all aren't the least
> > afraid that the OEW will get tired or give up.  If this comes off
> like
> > a
> > challenge, it is not intended as such.  I just want to understand
> why
> > your conculture is so docile.  Your response?
>
> Well, I think it's jumping to conclusions a bit to call the Tokana
> "docile" just because they don't worship their creator.  As I
> said before, the Tokana don't have a personal relationship
> with Old Eagle Woman, and would probably have a hard time
> understanding prayer, communication with spirits, and other
> such features of our familiar Western religions (monotheistic
> or polytheistic).  Like some Amerindian cultures, the Tokana
> view the world as being something that 'just happened'.
> Human beings developed out of the interaction of various
> 'forces' and were not directly, wilfully created by Old
> Eagle Woman.  Hence the Big Bang analogy...
>
> I should mention that life for the Tokana is not all that
> hard.  Their society is small-scale agrarian and non-industrial,
> and the population (which is quite small) is rather
> thinly spread.  Food is plentiful, the weather is relatively
> mild - though harsh winters are not uncommon - and
> outbreaks of disease or drought are rare.  About the worst
> natural disasters they have to deal with are the frequent
> earthquakes.  (The Tokana live on the Pacific Rim during
> a comparatively active period in geologic history.)  It may sound
> like a hopelessly utopian conculture, but it's not meant to be.
> I modelled the Tokana on the kinds of kinship-based societies
> found in places like precolonial Indonesia, New Guinea, and
> Central America.  Their religion should thus be expected
> to reflect that kind of 'lifestyle'.
>
> But to respond to your hypothetical situation:  Millenarian
> movements are most common among societies that are
> experiencing severe social pressures:  overpopulation,
> large-scale warfare, epidemics, revolutions and other
> rapid social, political, or economic changes.  At their
> current period of history, the Tokana are experiencing none
> of these pressures.  So why should they believe that Old
> Eagle Woman would 'give up' on them?
>
> Matt.
>
>
Sounds good to me.  I didn't know that much about the culture, and was
going on the premise that the Tokana people were more tightly packed.
Do they ever have any nearby tribes of a different culture?  If so,
there might be an added element of warriors.  If they inhabit the
Pacific Rim, isn't there the possibility of a Mayan-like culture
extending?  North America's Natives tended to be loosely packed, but the
Mayans, Aztecs, and Incans lived in cities, if I am correct.  Over time,
a civilisation like theirs could expand and meet the Tokanans, and
usually this was only really good for the explorers.
        Another point; if the weather is generally nice, and the food
plentiful, and the people are skilled in agriculture, their population
tends to increase fairly quickly.  How has the Tokana population stayed
down?
        In reference to "docile", I meant that I cannot see any culture
not having discord.  There are "bad apples" everywhere you look.  It
seems odd to me that there wouldn't be even occasional upstarts.  Are
there any tales used to ease the mind of a child who suddenly
understands what would happen if the Old Eagle Woman stops?  Obviously,
having no control over her means it's pointless to worry, but children
don't usually take such a logical point of view seriously.
        Tokana is extremely interesting, I can't wait for the web
page(s).