At 11:10 am +0100 6/3/02, Christophe Grandsire wrote:
>En réponse à daniel andreasson <danielandreasson@...>:
>
>> I'm sorry about a non-conlang question but a friend
>> of mine got this Latin message and he's wondering
>> what it means. And if it's even grammatical. Here
>> we go:
>>
>> Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.
>>
>> "The dragon sleeps never something." ???
>>
>> ObConlang: I promise to translate it into Cein when
>> I know what it means. :)
>>
>
>Well, let's see:
>
>Draco: nominative noun: dragon.
>Dormiens: present active participle: sleeping.
>Nunquam: negative adverb: never.
100% spot on!
>Titillandus:
>Well, this one is a problem. By form, it's easy: it's the verbal adjective
>of a
>verb *titillare. A verbal adjective has a passive and necessitive meaning:
>have
>to be *-ed.
That's right - the form is the _gerundive_.
>The problem is that I don't know of any Latin verb *titillare.
No need for the asterisk. The verb is well enough attested in Classical
Latin, being used even by Cicero himself! It means "to tickle" or "to
amuse"; hence the English "to titillate".
[snip]
>
>The sentence lacks a verb, but in this case it would simply be "est": is, so
>leaving it out is not much of a trouble, and makes the expression nicer as a
>proverb. Leaving out the verb "to be" in such expressions was usual in Latin
>(mainly in poetry, to fit the verse).
Not only in verse - 'twas not uncommon in prose of the "Silver Latin" (i.e.
post-Augustan) period.
[snip]
>
>Oh yeah! The translation: a literal translation would be: "The sleeping dragon
>is not to be tickled". In English you'd simply say: "Don't tickle a sleeping
>dragon!".
Yep - same idea as the English proverb: "Let sleeping dogs lie" (IME a very
good idea - never had any experience with dragons, but I have no doubt the
same applies).
In Welsh one has:
Na deffro 'r ci a fo'n cysgu
Not wake[IMP.] the dog that is in sleeping
i.e. Don't wake the sleeping dog.
[snip]
>
>A nice translation exercise, especially if peoplem try to go directly from the
>Latin original and try to keep its conciseness and non-verbness :)) .
>None of
>my languages have yet a word for "tickle" (nor for "dragon" :)) ), so I'll
>have
>to wait a bit before joining the boat.
But maybe your language has an equivalent phrase to:
Let sleeping dogs lie
Draco dormiens numquam titillandus
Na deffro'r ci a fo'n cysgu
What's the equivalent proverb in French? (There must be one, I guess).
----------------------------------------------------------
At 9:30 am -0800 6/3/02, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 04:49 AM 3/6/02 -0500, David Peterson wrote:
>>In a message dated 03/6/02 1:38:18 AM, danielandreasson@SWIPNET.SE [snip]
>> If I'm remembering right, it's "Never tickle a sleeping
>> dragon". From Harry Potter, no?
>
> Gad. I've never read Harry Potter (and have no interest in doing so),
Nor I, on both counts.
>but that's so close to the title of my song "Never Kick a Sleeping Tiger"
>that it's almost scary....
Not really, methinks. I don't know about 'kick' specifically, but it
wouldn't surprise me that in parts of the world where tigers live (sadly,
more often 'lived') there are not proverbs of the equivalent of: "Never X a
sleeping tiger" where X can be any verb meaning something that will rouse
the beast.
In England and Wales dogs are the fiercest (unless one goes back a few
centuries); in Potterland it's obviously dragons. Elsewhere there are
tigers, wolves and who knows what else that should not be disturbed.
What are the equivalent proverbs in natlangs and conlangs?
Ray.
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A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
[J.G. Hamann 1760]
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