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Re: târuven vowels and diphthongs

From:daniel andreasson <daniel.andreasson@...>
Date:Monday, October 16, 2000, 7:51
Taliesin skrev:

> Might be the program used that is the problem.
Tried it with Windows Media Player, RealPlayer, Winamp, AudioStation2 and finally WAVEplay which said "corrupt file - cannot play". So I guess we've localized the problem.
> I can send you other > versions of the sounds (different subtype of .wav) as I after much > work finally found a program that were capable of converting them. > (An Amiga, no less)
That would be great! Thanks.
> > Yep. For some reason I can't get into my head that {o} is /u/ and > > {u} is /}/. You'd think I could, since I'm Swedish. :)
> Hehe yeah. The entire line of closed vowels is neat though, i y u o > in târuven (/i/ /y/ /}/ /u/). Very "top-heavy" language :) So far, > all daughter- and sister-languages I've found have at least collapsed > the y with u or i.
Let's pray that never happens to Swedish or Norwegian. :) I think your {u} is different from mine. Is it the same {u} you use for Norwegian? Cos mine is a front vowel, between /ø/ and /y/ but with the lips inrounded instead of outrounded. I think I could use a wav-file to listen to. To hear what a central {u} sounds like, i.e.
> The following diphthongs exist in the vocab I have today, sorted by > frequency: aì eì uì aò yé yá yú yè uí uà oé aá oò oì oá iá ià eà aé
It's getting easier and easier to pronounce these correctly.
> That pair is actually quite easy... {oì} and {o}{ygrave} would be > rather worse :) In an earlier incarnation, those were written {oì} > and {óy}. Nowadays they're the same, pronounced as the latter, > written as the former. Same for {uì} and former {úy}.
Hehe. I can imagine why.
> > > Don't fuss over 'em; if the {i} of {aì} is the closest to /j/, > > > the {i} of {åì} is somewhere between /j/ and /w/ or if you like > > > a rounded /j/. The difference between {aò} and {aù} is that {ò} > > > is closest to /w/ while {ù} is somewhere between /j/ and /w/, > > > but closer to /w/ than the {ì} of {åì}. Btw, /H/ is in the French > > > word _lui_ /lHi/ or something like that.
> > AHA! _Now_ I got it! Why didn't you say so in the first place? :)
> Ah goody you mean that explanation works? Maybe I can finally update > the sounds-page then :)
Well, I meant the explanation of /H/ as in French _lui_. But the entire passage is good.
> > > Roughly: /ALwA.uwi.u_Lu_H:\.e:.y/
> > Hmm. My try wasn't that close. So there's a tetraphthong in > > the beginning? That was somewhat hard to see. I petty those > > little târuven (what _is_ the adjective again?) children trying > > to learn how to read and write at school. Ouch.
> Tip: count number of vowels with graves and acutes that are next > to eachother, add 1 (for the diacriticless vowel in front), and > hey presto!
AHA! Again: Why didn't you say so in the first place?! Pieces are starting to fall into the right places.
> Actually it marks palatalization or a hyper-short closed front vowel > whose rounding depends on it's neighbors. I've thought of replacing it > with {µ} mu, but I've also thought of using that one for nasals that > take their point of articulation from their neighbors.
Now that's a cool idea! A nice system to make the phonological rules shine through in the orthography.
> > mp3's I can listen to. ... But not that one apparently. Arrghs! > > What's up with my computer?!?!?
> Weird.
It got worse. The entire computer broke down. Couldn't even start the damn thing. Because of one bad soundcard driver. Somehow I fixed it. Now it says that I have two of the same audio driver installed, one faulty and one working. Don't have the guts to remove the bad one since the computer's working now. Ugh. Daniel = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -- Albert Einstein = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =