Re: CHAT: Subtitles (was: Re: Proto-Romance)

Benct Philip Jonsson scripsit:

> No.  Superficially it looks like 'North-rams', and the singular
> exists too, but I strongly suspect that _baggar_ in this case
> is a corruption of Old Norse _baglar_ 'bishop's staffs' which
> was the name of one of the political parties in medieval Norway.*
Ah, I lost the context and didn't realize this was pl., so I guess
that it was the same borrowing as E _bugger_ < _Bulgar_ (specifically
the Cathari).

> FWIW I'd bet some money that _bagall_ is a cognate of English
> _bagel_, due to the shape no doubt.
Indirectly, maybe.  E. _bagel_ < Y. _beygl_.  There is no recorded version
of this in MHG, but we presume it's from _bouc_ 'ring', with diminutive
ending -el plus umlaut.  The nearest native cognate is the verb _bow_
< OE _bugan_ 'bend'.

ObRant:  It's a mystery to me how the verb _bow_ 'bend the body' and its
derived noun _bow_ (both /bau/) got separated from the noun _bow_ 'missile
weapon; viol implement' and its derived verb (both /bou/), since a bow
is transparently "that which is bent" (as in _rainbow_, very plainly).
But it was already so in OE:  bugan, boga respectively.  As for _bow_
'front of a ship', it's a borrowing from Dutch, like lots of sea-words;
it's a doublet of _bough_ (both /bau/) in the old sense 'shoulder'.

ObScure:  The ancient church of St. Mary-le-Bow in the City of London
is embedded in the language:  to be a Cockney is, or was, to be born
"within sound of Bow bells", and Dick Whittington, of whom children
still hear tell, was inspired to "turn again" by these same bells and
remain in London, to make his fortune and become Lord Mayor (in 1397
for the first time and twice thereafter).  The "great bell at Bow" is
also mentioned in the traditional children's rhyme "Oranges and Lemons".
Boringly, the name simply refers to the bow arches in the crypt and the
steeple; its formal name is the equally boring Sancta Maria de Arcubus.
The Court of Arches, one of the surviving ecclesiastical courts of the
Church of England, formerly met in the crypt.

--
John Cowan  www.reutershealth.com  www.ccil.org/~cowan  jcowan@reutershealth.com
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