Re: Fijian gender

Let me dust off my Fijian grammar over the weekend and see what I can find
out.

I don't offhand know of other languages w/ the edible/drinkable gender
thing, if you want to call it gender.  I  would bet that a donated heart,
prosthesis, etc. could be alienable or inalienable; but why doesn't someone
ask a native speaker of Fijian?  My advice is to call BYU or the Polynesian
Cultural Center.

Fijians seemed to have nothing to do other than invent extra classes of
things.  Singular, dual, *trial* and plural pronouns.   I thought Samoan and
Hawaiian had a lot of pronouns till I looked at Fijian.

Hawaiian has alienable/inalienable possession.  Your boat or car is
inalienable, your spouse is alienable.  Makes sense, no?   Hawaiian seems to
recognize that when we rely on tech, we are droid.  I will have to find out
if people possess their PCs and laptops alienably or inalienably.

Actually if you were a boat builder, your boats (that you built) would be
alienable.  I look at the owner of something alienably possessed as being
very similar to an agent.  I don't see alienable/inalienable as gender, that
is to say, as a feature of nouns.  I see it as being just one more way to
express the actor/acted upon relationship (or something kind of like it).
If you possess something alienable, you can do something about it.

But remember, I'm a creative, not an academic.  I am not a practicing
linguist...I went into film/video production after I got my MA.  Now I write
boring, well-paying corporate stuff and exciting, non-paying fiction.  Also
I am teaching and choreographing a lot of traditional hula, so I get to look
at my Hawaiian language texts a whole lot.

Take everything I say w/ a grain of salt, because I'm on this list for
amusement.  I spend all day checking facts for my clients... I'm more into
sheer speculation, here.

Nice to meet y'all,

C.
PS - So what did someone want to know about Tahitian?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Trebor Jung" <treborjung@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Fijian gender


> Roger írta: "Fijian distinguishes 4 types of possession:  (1) inalienable
> (body parts, probably kin terms, probably some other things); (2)
alienable
> (things that one can possess or obtain for one's use)-- these two
categories
> are common in many languages of Oceania, Eastern Indonesia (Moluccan area)
> and of course elsewhere in the world; assignment to one or the other
> category is often flexible.  The other two are more or less unique to
Fijian
> (3) edible, (4) drinkable-- clearly these last two are fairly restricted
as
> to what they can refer to.
>
> One question: Say you were talking about e.g. your artificial eye? Would
> that be expressed alienably or inalienably, since you can (theoretically
at
> least) remove it? And what if e.g. your heart was donated?
>
> "Inalienable: the various possessive forms are suffixed
>
> "For the others, the poss. suffixes go on special bases, which then
precede
> the noun in question:
>
> "Alienable (or general): the suffixes are attached to no-
> Edible: attached to ke-
> Drinkable: attached to me-
>
> *That* is pretty neat! :) I think I'll steal that for a conlang...
>
> "There can be some overlap: noqu devu 'my sugarcane' (e.g. to sell), mequ
> devu 'my sugarcane' (to "drink" i.e. suck on); and perhaps yate/qu 'my
> liver' vs. kequ yate 'the piece of liver I can eat'-- it may be that these
> categories so exited the early researchers because when first contacted,
the
> Fijians were still cannibals.
>
> A history question: How did the Europeans stop the Fijians from being
> cannabals? I mean, wouldn't they be scared they might be next? :P
>
> "I don't have a grammar of Fijian, but the dictionary notes that ke-
> (edible) forms can be used with things characteristic of a person.
>
> Any examples? I don't quite understand that.
>
> "Ditto!! Perhaps our new Oceanist knows of other languages in the area
that
> have an "edible" etc. category.
>
> Yes indeed! (That's why I asked *here*, not on the ZBB-- I thought since
you
> and Carol are experts on Oceanic langs you'd be the best people to ask).
>
> Oh and another question: What are Formosan langs? ...Wait a minute, isn't
> there an island/archipelago called Formosa-something? *shrugs* Anyway,
what
> are some distinguishing characteristics? Oh yes, one more... lol... Any
info
> on Tahitian? Google is unhelpful...
>
> Thanks,
> Trebor