--- Thomas Leigh <thomas@...>
wrote:
> > > > And as far as language as a function of
> being
> > > > Scottish is concerned, I hope that Doric
> and
> > > > Norn won't be neglected in the paper!
> > >
> > > I'm afraid they will:-( I have little
> material
> > > about them and *very* little
> > > time... My original plan was to write about
> > > Gaelic, Scots and Shetlandic,
>
> When I was in Scotland -- and associating with
> militant Scots
> activists :-) -- I was given to understand that
> Shetlandic was
> one of the dialects of Scots. Though now, in
> more than one
> place, I've seen it classified as a separate
> entity. Either of
> you know more about that? I'm curious.
For the essentialist list: Shetlandic is "English
taught by Lowlanders to Norwegians" (Alexander
Ellis, _Shetland Dialect_). Take a look here
<http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wirhoose/but/zet/norn.htm>
> > Well, you've got it in there, then, just
> > under a
> > different name! Doric is just modern A-S! ;)
>
> So's English! ;-)
Yep! ;))
> > I
> > don't like to use "Scots", though it's
> perfectly
> > legit.
>
> The problem is that the name Doric refers to
> the dialects of the
> northeast only. The only [other] name I can
> think of which covers all
> varieties of the language is "Lallans",
That's better (though I never liked the sound of
"Lallans")!
> and that's something of
> an artificial construct. I've never met a Scots
> speaker who
> called the language that. All the Scots
> speakers I ever met
> called it Scots, or Doric if that was the
> variety that they
> spoke. I actually have (or had, at any rate) a
> good passive
> understanding of Doric, from living in Aberdeen
> for four years,
> though my ability to actually produce it is
> limited.
Lucky.
> > Too many people confuse it with Scots
> > Gaelic.
>
> You think?
In America, yeah. "Everybody" knows that Scottish
people speak English with a funny accent (Mr.
Scot on Star Trek being an exemplar); "everybody"
also knows that some Scots speak Gaelic. So
there's a sort of dichotomy between English and
Gaelic. Most people don't know that there even is
a Scots/Lallans/Doric language and that it's
really any different than English. And most
probably couldn't tell the difference anyway.
Sure it has some funny words (auld lang syne,
which by the by is actually good English as well
as guid Scots), but Southern has some funny words
too (crawdad and chittlins and similar).
> I haven't experienced that so much
> as people
> confusing Scottish Gaelic with Irish. I think
> in a lot of
> people's (read: Americans') minds, "Gaelic" =
> "Ireland", period.
Sure, which is why they think "Scots" = "Scots
Gaelic"!
> By the wey, Padraic, I didna ken ye haed sic an
> interest in the
> guid mither tung!
:)
> Hou braw it is tae ken thair's ither fowk oot
> thair on wir wee listie apairt fae masel at
> appreiciates hit! :)
I'm a member of SNDA and am (very slowly) working
around to getting some materials to actually
learn the language. I'd like to find some popular
fiction (Tolkien would be great, as would
Pratchett) in Scots, or some modern Scottish
written sci-fi or fantasy. I think the best way
to learn it (in order to read or write it at
least) will be to actually find some things to
read.
> Have you seen the Luath Scots Language Learner
> by Colin Wilson?
> (
http://www.luath.co.uk/acatalog/Language.html)
> It's the first
> serious "teach yourself" type textbook for
> Scots. I think it's
> quite good. And it's based on northeast Scots,
> i.e. Doric! :)
> Check it out.