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Re: THEORY: transitivity

From:From Http://Members.Aol.Com/Lassailly/Tunuframe.Html <lassailly@...>
Date:Thursday, May 27, 1999, 21:16
> Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 27/05/99 20:53:04 , Fabian a =E9crit : > =20 > > > Hello all. > > > > > > I've been thinking about making a lang which distinguishes > > > between zero-transitive, intransitive, transitive and > > > ditransitive (is that the English term?) verbs in that > > > the conjugation would be different in each form. > > > (And possibly also distinguish between verbs that > > > don't have an agent, eg. "I sleep" and verbs that do.) > > > > > > 0. (It) rains [no S or O] > > > 1. I sleep [only S] > > > 2. I eat (food) [S and O] > > > 3. I give (it to you) [1 S and 2 Os] > > =20 > > =20 > > It seems to me that you are falling into teh trap of forcing English=20 > idiom > > into your grammar. COnsider 'it is raining'. Here is how different=20 > languages > > do this: > > =20 > > French: il pleut [it rains] > > Maltese: ix xita [the rain] > > Japanese: ame ga furu [rain falls] > > =20 > > Note that teh second doesn't even have a verb. Japanese follows patter=
n=20
> no.1 > > in your model. > >=20 > =20 > I would suggest to take into consideration the various degrees of=20 > integration from syntagme to lexie. > =20 > example 1 : > the child takes the bus (toy) and throws it > the bus is taken by the=20
child.
> "takes the bus" is a syntagme verbal made of a "verb" and an "accusative=20 > noun". > =20 > example 2 : > I take the bus > *the bus is taken by me. > "takes the bus" is a lexie : "bus" and "take" are semantically integrated=
.=20
> "the bus" is not considered an accusative anymore, it is integrated into=20
"to=20
> take" as an applicative. > So i do not consider "ame ga furu" as a syntagme but as a lexie like "se=20
ga=20
> takai", "atama ga ii", "ki ga tsuku", "kuchikazu ga ooi", etc. > So i would rather consider "ame ga furu" to be pattern 0. But again, this=20 > depends on where you draw the line of word integration. > =20 > > --- > > Fabian > > Rule One: Question the unquestionable, > > ask the unaskable, eff the ineffable, > > think the unthinkable, and screw the inscrutable. > =20 > Mathias > "ici est l'ailleurs d'un autre". > =20