Re: polish nasals (was: Re: Opinions on English)
|From:||Raymond Brown <ray.brown@...>|
|Date:||Friday, September 22, 2000, 18:21|
At 1:02 am +0200 21/9/00, lucasso wrote:
>> Poland, first in Krakóv and then almost on the southern border at Zakopane
>> in the Tatra mountains. In both places I heard the first nasal clearly
>> pronounced in the word:
>> dzieokujeo (thank you) [hope the nasal hooks appear OK]
>well, it doesn't...
>in the word final position there could be only nasalised e and o. in
>standard polish the nasality of e is very weak and often completely lost.
That accounts for what I heard. Certainly I could detect no nasality with
final "tailed e".
>the nasal o (written as a with a "tail") lost its nasality only in some
>dialects and in standard polish always remains nasal.
I must confess I didn't hear enough Polish to notice this.
>and this "dzie,kuje," should sound (in SAMPA) [d_z\ENkujE]. there should be
>ESPECIALLY in Kraków and the neighbourhood.
Sorry - I misunderstood your original. I thought you meant that "hooked e"
was /E/ except before fricatives. Thus I was a bit puzzled as in Kraków
and the neighbourhood the was a distinct nasal sound at the end of the
first syllable, as you show above.
But I guess you mean that the 'hooked' vowels are realized as _vowel +
homorganic nasal consonant_ before a plosive (or other nasal?) but simply
as a nasalized vowel before a fricative. And I guess that written _vowel +
n_ is also pronounced simply as a nasal vowel before a fricative. Is that
I said I wasn't an expert on Polish - just trying to make sense of the
little I heard & what you had written. And what you have said makes it a
lot clearer - thanks.
What happens if these _vowel + n_ or a "hooked vowel" come before /l/ or
/r/. I guess they'd be just nasal vowels, or is the nasalixation dropped
A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
[J.G. Hamann 1760]