Re: Ignorant people & diacritics

On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 11:33:00AM -0800, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> Right-wingedness and the Bible have nothing to do with each other.
With all respect, they most certainly do.  I do not wish to paint
all Bible-believers with the same brush, as you do later with
scientists, but the politics of the right in the United States
are currently dominated by fundamentalist Christians.  More moderate
conservatives variously regret and decry this dominance; some go so far
as to deny its existence.  Nevertheless, it is clearly the case.

It is, of course, only a one-way implication, and a rather weak one at
that; it would be absurd to claim the inverse, that most Christians were
right wingers, even in the US.  But to say that the concepts have
nothing to do with each other is an overstatement.

> that comes their way and deride the Bible without having even read it,
> basing their accusations on faith in what their science-priests tell
> them.
I know this was directed at Mr. Kramm in particular, but now you are the
one being inflammatory.  The phrase "science-priests" draws a false
equivalence between science and faith.  The claims of faith are not
testable; after all, if they were, no faith would be required.  I
thought this very lack of proof was considered a virtue by the faithful,
in fact.

The claims of science are testable, and while I don't feel the need to
personally repeat every experiment, the fact that I can in principle do
so is highly significant.  I certainly don't believe what I read in
science journals just because somebody in a white coat says it; I
believe it because I have learned how the scientific method works, and
repeated *enough* experiments to know that said method produces results
which are an accurate reflection of reality.

I also don't necessarily agree that one needs to have read the Bible in
order to doubt its validity.  I feel no need to read a book on the
details of tarot-reading, astrological prediction, or any of the various
"magickal" systems, in order to be quite thoroughly convinced that they
are 100% malarky.  That doesn't mean I'm not interested in reading them;
in fact, such things fascinate me for some reason.  But I'm not about to
assign any credence to them.   The key point, and please note that I
mean no offense here, is that *to many people who were not raised
religiously*, the Bible is in precisely the same category as the above.

A brief detour into full disclosure: Now, I was raised a Christian, and
I have read the Bible directly and studied many exegeses thereof, and
theology is one of the topics I find fascinating, probably due to its
deep connections to linguistic and cultural issues.  But I stopped
believing in God back in high school.  And this not due to any tragedy
or anything; I had simply learned enough that I no longer felt the need
to resort to a God to explain the universe's existence.   For a time
thereafter, I was insufferably anti-religious and quite rude, much like
Mr. Kramm.  Of course, I was a teenager.  (I was banned from reciting
the blessing at Christmas dinner after addressing it "To whom it may
concern" one memorable year.)

I have since moderated my beliefs somewhat.  For instance, although I
don't see any requirement that a god exist, I don't find it
inconceivable that one does.  Perhaps our universe is actually a
simulation being run by a higher being to some experimental purpose.  Or
maybe it's just a video game like "The Sims".  In any case, if there is
any god, I would be quite surprised to find out that it had any
resemblance to the Judeo-Christian God, or even any awareness of what
humans were up to at an individual level.  And regardless, I certainly
don't believe in any sort of life after death.

I've also come to realize that religion in general, and even
Christianity in particular, has done some good in the world along with
the bad.  I'm still not convinced that it's a net negative, but it's
kinda too late to worry about that.  "They're here, God they fear, get
used to it."

The main thing, though, is this: many of my closest friends and
colleagues are Christian, some even of the fundamentalist variety (I am
in Georgia, after all), and while we have had some, er, lively
discussions on theological topics, none of us holds those who disagree
with him or her in any sort of contempt.  I mean, it is the ultimate topic on
which "reasonable people can reasonably disagree".  And they do!
A lot!

So please, be nice.  Heck, take a page from the book in question and be
nice even when folks are non-nice to you first; the list will be better off
that way.

-Marcos

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