Re: A question and introduction

On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:39:27 -0400, Roger Mills <romilly@...> wrote:

>>>From: Rune Haugseng <haugrune@...>
>>>
>>>My conlang Kemata marks negation on nouns (and pronouns), and makes a
>>>distinction between these two:
>>>
>>>Gadbuvaire raidone.
>>>gat-bu-0.v.ai.re  raido-ne
>>>see-Ps-S.1p.M.Neg house-NISg
>>>I don't see a house.
>>>
>>>Gadbuvai raidohune.
>>>gat-bu-0.v.ai raido-hune
>>>see-Ps-S.1p.M house-NISgNeg
>>>I see no house (but something else).
>>>
>>>In the first case, the negation is marked on the subject, while in the
>>>second it is marked on the object.
>>>
>This is somewhat similar to Indonesian, with two negatives _tidak_ for
>verbs, adj., sentences; and _bukan_ for nouns and pronouns, most often in
>statements like "X is not (a) Y"--
>
>1a. saya tidak melihat gadis itu "I didn't see that girl"
>1b. saya tidak melihat gadis-gadis "I didn't see (any) girls"
>2a. Pak Sihombing bukan dokter "Mr. S. is not a doctor"
>2b. Ia pendeta, bukan guru "he is a priest, not a teacher"
>2c. Siapa tahu menjawab? Bukan saya.  "Who knows the answer? Not me."
>
>You can't use bukan in 1a/b without changing the meaning; you can't use
>tidak in 2a/b/c at all. (though possible 2c...saya tidak tahu "I don't
>know (it)" )
>
>1a.i saya melihat bukan gadis itu, tapi gadis lain (probably better saya
>melihat gadis lain, bukan gadis itu) I didn't see that girl, but (rather)
>another one ~ I saw another girl, not that one.
Interesting that _bukan_ precedes the noun gadis "girl" even though it's
_itu_ being negated. Unless I've seriously misconstrued your examples.

'Yemls uses the prefix {YO} for both kinds of negations, but must be
applied to the specific word being negated. (more precisely YO is always
applied to the head of the "predicate" begin negated)

i: Vid-f d YOTqB. "I saw those things that weren't trees."
i: YOVid-f d TqB. "I didn't see the tree". (but may have walked into it)
HlA: MOM YOjOn. "Helga is the mother of someone who isn't John."
HlA: YOMOM jOn. "Helga isn't John's mother." (she could be somebody else's
mother or possibly not anyone's mother)

>1a.ii  bukan gadis itu (yang) saya lihat "It wasn't that girl that I saw"
>(implied: but someone else)
>1a.iii gadis itu, bukan yang saya lihat "That girl isn't the one I saw"
>
>It gets more complicated, and is very difficult for a westerner to
>remember the proper usage.
Really? So far no more difficult than German.

>Even more difficult is the use in writing of both "tidaklah..."and
>"bukanlah..." which are fronted, and produce sort-of cleft sentences, "It
>isn't that...., It is not the case that...".  It's one bit of Indonesian
>grammar that did not find its way into Kash.......
Well you didn't intend Kash to be an alien relex of formal Indonesian, did
you?

Jeff J.