Re: CHAT: Phonemic status of English interdentals

Muke Tever wrote:

>From: "John Cowan" <jcowan@...>
>
>
>>Josh Roth scripsit:
>>
>>
>>>On the other hand, there are
>>>few if any good minimal pairs, they can sometimes be interchanged, and
>>>
>>>
>people
>
>
>>>often can't tell the difference on demand (this may be due to the lack of
>>>minimal pairs and the fact that they are neither written differently nor
>>>[usually, at least, I assume] taught as distinct sounds in school, whereas
>>>other phonemes are).
>>>
>>>
>>In addition, the list of words containing /D/ is closed; all new words,
>>whether coined or borrowed, use /T/.  If you show the word "thalassemia"
>>(a genetic blood disease) to someone who has never seen it before, they
>>will pronounce it with /T/.  (Mark Line of this list pointed this out.)
>>
>>
>
>Is the list of *words* closed, or just the list of morphemes?
>
>"thalassemia" I can see being /T/-only, but suppose that someone invented a new
>set of direction words for a 4-D simulation:  <whask?/hask/thask> ... shouldn't
>*thask as a demonstrative, along the /(h)w h D/ series, exhibit /D/?
>
Well... if you could think of them being created, then probably. But
it's not like we're going to come up with a new set, as it? More likely
just use where/here/there or something with a preposition if necessary.

>>The general rule is that /D/ is used initially only in function words,
>>and not all of them; also intervocalically, and finally where a final /@/
>>("silent e") has been lost.  This rule is messy, but I think captures all
>>the cases.
>>
>>
>
>Except possibly some Greek borrowings such as <mythos>, <pathos>.
>
>And possibly <rhythmic> but I'm not sure what exactly that proves.  <arithmetic>
>has /Tm/ just fine, and doesn't seem to borrow /Dm/ from the root (as it does in
><logarithm>, say), but <rhythmic> still absorbs /Dm/...   In fact that seems
>odd.  Does <arithm-> always have /Tm/ (arithmetic, arithmology) and <-arithm(-)>
>(logarithm, algorithm[1]) always /Dm/ ?  while <(-)rhythm(-)> always has /Dm/
>(arrhythmia, biorhythm) regardless?
>
Nice and simple... 'rhythmic' is related to 'rhythm', which uses [D]
because of the voiced m ending the syllable. Even if it's really in two
syllables. Just like -ism is /Iz@m/. Therefore, 'rhythmic' takes [D]
too. There is no such word as 'arithm', so any word beginning with it
just gets the normal [T]. That makes sense enough to me... if you can
follow my train of thought. Which doesn't follow any rails. It's sort of
an off-road road train.

Oh, and I understand that because you're referring not to the
*orthography* of the word but to the word itself, you're supposed to use
quotation marks not angle brackets. I understand it as: 'quotes' refer
to the word; <angle brackets> to the spelling, [square brackets] to the
actual sound and /slashes/ to the phonemes. Of course, I could be wrong ;)

Tristan

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