Re: Syntactic differences within parts of speech

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:48:46 -0000, caeruleancentaur
<caeruleancentaur@...> wrote:

>I have recently added a fourth mood, the relative, because there are
>no relative adverbs or pronouns.  They take the ending -i.  Because
>the language is SOV, all modifiers are preposed.  Thus,"the red
>flower" is _rûûðo ânþos_, but "the flower which is red" is "_rûûði
>ânþos."  Unfortunately, with this example, if the flower is still
>attached to the the plant, and thus still living, "the red flower"
>would also be _rûûði ânþis_.  Is this "the red flower" or "the
>flower which is red"?
>
>The red flower is on the table.
>The flower, which is red, is on the table.
>
>It seems to me that these two sentences are semantically the same.
>I guess it's up to the speaker's discretion which one to use.
>
>If anyone can think of a reason for prefering one over the other,
>please let me know.

Well, I wouldn't say those two sentences are semantically the same. I can
see a clear difference between "The flower that is red is on the table" and
"The flower, which is red, is on the table". In the former the quality of
being red is used to identify which flower we are talking about (the one
that is red and not some other); that is, in context, "the flower" alone
wouldn't suffice to fully identify what entity we are talking about (maybe
because there are some other flowers in some other colours), so we use its
colour quality to tell apart which one. While in the latter, saying "the
flower" is deemed contextually enough to identify the entity we are
referring to, and "which is red" is added as merely a side comment.

In English this distinction is clear when using subordinate clauses to
express the quality, but it blurs when using an adjective attributively
("the red flower" can mean both). However, in Spanish the distinction is
clear also when using the adjective without a subordinate clause, by means
of word order: "la flor roja" ("the red flower" meaning "the flower that is
red") vs. "la roja flor" ("the red flower" meaning "the flower, which is
red"). In Spanish we call the former "adjetivo especificativo" (after a
noun, further specifying its referent) and the latter "adjetivo epiteto"
(before a noun, merely referencing a quality as a side comment). There are
some exceptional, idiomatic exceptions to this word order rule of Spanish
adjectives, of course (e.g., some adjectives are only used before the noun,
and some others completely change their meaning when shifting order), but it
holds true in general.