Re: Q (Caucasian Elf)

Patrick Dunn sikayal:

> On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, jesse stephen bangs wrote:
>
> > I'll say.  That's the largest consonant phonology I've ever seen, altho
> > I've never studied an actual Caucasian language.  Perhaps those can be
> > even larger.  I don't find the system personally appealing, as I prefer
> > minimal phonologies, for the most part, but I admire that it's consistent.
> > BTW, why are all of these sounds considered different phonemes?  Why
> > doesn't anyone ever suggest that /tw/ is actually just /t/ + /w/, or that
> > /t`/ is /t/ + /?/.  (I say 'anyone,' because I'm assuming that you're just
> > following normal practice for linguists.)
>
> Simple: because they're different sounds.  :)  A /t^w/ (with a superscript
> w) is a /t/ made with rounded lips, *not* a /t/ followed by a /w/.  In the
> same vein, /t'/ is a /t/ made with glotal pressure instead of lung
> pressure.  So it's different from -- although might turn into -- a /t/
> followed by a /?/.
I was going to defend myself, but then I talked myself into agreeing with
you.  I was going to say that it would cut down on the awkwardly large
phoneme inventory if you could identify the feature 'velarized' as a
phoneme of its own, which then combines with the other phonemes to create
the velar series, and so on with the glottalized series, etc.  The naked
manifestations of these phonemes might be /w/ and /?/, then.  However, I
quickly realized that this could be applied to almost any feature that's
consistent throughout a phoneme inventory, and so the distinction is
useless ;P

> > Ahh, tone.  The bane of my existence.  Although I admire your language for
> > its expansiveness, I would probably find it impronounceable and not very
> > aesthetic.  But to each his own.
>
> Tone *can* be very beautiful.  Hrondu has a tone accent, but a very, very
> simple one.
I'd have to hear it to beleive it.  Vietnamese, Thai, and all of the
varieties of Chinese I've ever heard have seemed extremely ugly to
me, as have the few snippets of tonal African languages that I've heard.

Jesse S. Bangs jaspax@u.washington.edu
"It is of the new things that men tire--of fashions and proposals and
improvements and change.  It is the old things that startle and
intoxicate.  It is the old things that are young."
-G.K. Chesterton _The Napoleon of Notting Hill_
Conlanger code: CLI> l%p+++ cS:R:N:H a++ y n18d:6 X+++ A-- E-- L-- N2.5
Idmp k++ ia-- p+ m++ o+++ P d++ b++ Yivríndil