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Re: elv ned'm concurrent pronoun systems

From:Joe Mondello <rugpretzel@...>
Date:Tuesday, March 9, 1999, 4:34
Sally Writes:

> Ditto ditto ditto... I find this system fascinating, Joe, and want you t=
> elucidate it. What would make such a language change the pronouns > to affect the verb? Do you have another system of pronouns to > reflect, say, delight? And like Pablo, I'm curious how you mark > subjects that aren't pronouns? It seems immensely original but > ultimately unworkable and cumbersome. But I'm drawn to it. > It's as though the speaker (or doer) has to change personalities to exp=
> delight, violence, or neutrality instead of familiarity or formality, > which it vaguely echoes. >
An important thing to keep in mind is that essentially the same group of sounds, a "word" when used with pronoun system 1 and pronouns system 2, essentially become homonyms with (usually) no intentional connection in meaning. As for origins, I was thinking perhaps ned'm was formed by the c= lash of two languages. While language 1 was the indigenous language and its pronouns have become the pronouns in system 1, The system 2 pronouns and t= he subsequent meanings that they indicate in verbs come from a different language. I was thinking that this language had its nominative pronouns f= used to the beginnings of its verbs. When words were introduced to language 1,= one of two things happened. If a word wasn't easily confused with any existin= g word, it was absorbed into the language as is, using pronoun system 1 only= . If the word from langauge 2 sounded like a verb or other type of word from language 1, it retained its language 2 pronoun. Thus the "words" that hav= e two meanings and use two pronoun systems are actually a sort of homonym. There are some homonymous[?] verbs which don't use two pronoun systems, bu= t their meanings are very obvious from context (and i tend to doubt they wer= e a result of friction between the two languages). as for pronouns to indica= te delight, etc., its not the pronouns indicating anything about the verb exc= ept its pedigree (except for words coined into the system) and which meaning i= t is taking in a situation. I suppose I made a mistake of using loy (1-to like= , 2-to molest) as an example because it could easily indicate that there is necessarily to be a link between a word's two meanings. The most useful (= if thats's possible) implementation of the two pronoun systems is when the tw= o meanings of a word take similar sorts of objects. Here is a better exampl= e than 'loy': roo'al: 1- to put in order, collate. 2- to paint, cover with a liquid tha= t is meant to remain on the surface of something d'peng lau renggey em roo'al gebikengich tsipeng. FUT-she expectation it-ACC you-1 collate those-paper-her-PLU towards-her. She'll expect you to collate those papers of hers for her. pengka loo renggey goo roo'al gebrstengich tsipeng she-PAST want it-ACC you-2 paint those-notebook-cover-her-PLU towards-her She wanted you to paint her notebook covers for her. When the subject isn't a pronoun there is left-shifting and the pronoun is added after the subject itself. when there is an unspecific subject (as i= n pseudopassive forms) the pronoun =F3 (someone, often translated as "they" = in English) is used. system 2 pronouns are for all intents and purposes mandatory. Roger dey tsekuv roo'al gebikoolich v ilee Roger, 3s do-PERFECTIVE paint those-water-color-paper-PLU is lovely. Roger has painted lovely scenes (on these pieces of watercolor paper) Whether or not this system will add to or detract from my language I am no= t yet sure. I will continue to work with the system, taking into account th= e very interesting questions and comments I have been given here.
>It seems immensely original but ultimately unworkable and cumbersome
I think that it seems that way because of how you are interpreting my mean= ing. perhaps your perception will weaken (or intensify) upon reading this. Tha= nks for the feedback pacs precs Joe Mondello