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Re: USAGE: Catalan (was: Romance demonstratives)

From:John Cowan <cowan@...>
Date:Wednesday, April 14, 1999, 21:11
FFlores scripsit:

> > aviat 'soon' menjador 'dining room' > Could it be _menjador_ from same origin as Fr. _manger_? > Colloquial Sp. has _manyar_ 'eat' from It. _mangiare_.
> > barret 'hat' mitj=F3 'sock' > Fr. > Eng. _beret_?
Quite likely, though I don't know whether it's a borrowing or common origin. Catalan and Occitan (Provencal) are more closely related than either is to Std. Spanish or Std. French.
> > butxaca 'pocket' oi '(tag question element)' > Sp. _buchaca_ 'bag' is really rare. I've heard it used > as a technical term for the holes in a pool table.
Called "pockets" in English as well.
> > enraonar 'talk' tancar 'shut' > Must be a coincidence, but Sp. has _(a)trancar_ 'lock'.
Sounds like a coincidence to me too.
> > ganivet 'knife' vermell 'red' > Sp. _bermell=F3n_ 'red, carmin' is rare (mostly used > for lipstick colours :)
English has "vermeil" < Fr. and "vermilion" < It.
> I would never imagine such quantity of catalanisms. > Most of them are indeed standard and very common. > The Iberic Peninsula was/is really a boiling language > stew :) and I wouldn't want the job to separate the > ingredients -- reconstructing "pure" Old Spanish > must have been (be?) a nightmare, with all those > langs and dialects borrowing from each other.
When you figure out the sound changes from Vulgar Latin to Spanish proper, you then have to be able to account for the exceptions, and when they follow the general pattern of another Romance language, the case is pretty clear. In addition, food names are often borrowed (Eng. "zucchini" < It., for example), and it is hardly surprising that Catalans should contribute most of the nautical words: correspondingly, English has borrowed many from Dutch and Low German. The most striking borrowing IMHO is "espa~nol", where pure Spanish would be "espa~non"; this is thought to be from Occitan. --=20 John Cowan e'osai ko sarji la lojban.