Re: Apical pronoun in english?

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Muke Tever wrote:

> E fésto Remi Villatel <maxilys@...>:
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> > What kind of neologism would create a native english speaker?
I'm not aware that words are capable of creating native English speakers.
I guess a command to a few people might, though :)

> > he + she = *hes [his]
> > him + her = *hem [h@m]
> > his + her = *hir [hir]
> >
> > <I am talking to hem. Hes is listening to me.>
No, that won't do at all; the contracted -'s (is, has) simply wouldn't
contract very well on a pronoun ending in -s.

> > I refuse to call my Aliens "it"!
The thing is, if that's what Englishspeakers decide is good, then what can
you do?

> > So? Native english speakers, it's your
> > job to create new words en English. What kind of word would you use if
> > apical
> > Aliens land just on the lawn of the UNHQ and refuse to be called either
> > "he" or "she"?  (Theorical hypothesis...)  ;-)
Call it it, perhaps?

> I assume by "apical" you mean "epicene" ?
>
> The easiest way, though not uncontroversial, is to use "they, them, their"
> (which is what English-speakers often do when referring to a concrete
> person of unknown gender, or a person in the abstract whose gender is
> unimportant).
I'm quite happy to do it to abstract people (and in fact find alternatives
like he, she, he/she, s/he etc. to be dodgy in the extreme), but really,
it depends on how concrete they are if you can use 'they'. I wouldn't use
it in something like:
 - I have a friend named Chris. They're very tall.
On the other hand,
 - I have a friend named Chris.
 - How tall are they?
is perfectly fine, I presume because the speaker in the first one ought to
know what sex Chris is, but in the second they don't. (On the other hand,
I don't really use gendered nouns even when I know the sex, exceptions
apply. Is not a concious thing.)

> For persons with characteristics of both genders, it seems to be nearly an
> online standard to use "shi, hir, hir" (which I suppose are pronounced
> identically to the feminine pronouns).
I've never seen them before, though. For people with characteristics of
both sexes, I use the pronoun of the gender they associate with. (In fact,
that applies to people with characteristics of only one sex, regardless
of any relationship between sex and gender.)

> For persons without gender characteristics, I'm not aware of anything in
> common use (except maybe "they").
Well, corporations are both they and it depending on dialect and/or mood :)

--
Tristan.

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