Re: Inherently Reflexive Verbs (was: mental masturbation)

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

> Since I don't have sources on masturbation (the Garalw=FCshir, that
> curious handbook for young courtesans doesn't mention the subject,
> and neither has Yindan much to say on the subject in his grammar
> of Denden), I had to rely on my own ingenuity.
>=20
> I early on determined that it would need to be inherently reflexive in
> Denden, too. There's (to my knowledge) one other inherently reflexive
> verb, or perhaps I'd better say 'idiom', in Denden, and that is _kisame
> dilogh_, literally 'to nag oneself', 'piekeren' in Dutch, which my
> dictionary translates as 'puzzle (over), worry, fret'.
Curiously, I've been doing some research on the topic of medieval
masturbation in order to comment on Old English Riddle 12 (with a woman
who is putatively masturbating in front of the fire).  There doesn't
seem to have been a word for "masturbate" in medieval Latin.  I don't
about classical Latin... Ray or somebody else can inform me, but Payer
writes in _Sex and the Penitentials_ that the concept was expressed
by a reflexive phrase like  _ipsa coitum habet_ (has sex with herself)
or
_propriis membris se ipsum violaverit_ ("has violated himself with his
own members").  I can't believe this is true... the Penitentials would
of course express it with a circumlocution, but weren't there vulgar
terms in Latin? I think _masturbari_ is a late addition and coinage,
but I'm away from the OED. =20


>=20
> To further explore the concept I was wondering whether the act of
> masturbating would have anything to do with sex qua _ars amatoria_, to
> a Charyan man or woman. On the whole, I don't think so - it's not
> condemned as anti-social or unhealthy. If done in public one would
> either draw spectators or get some offers to join in the fun, I think.
> When done in private it's more like scratching an itch, or stretching
> after waking up.
And what would the Charyans say that the lovers were doing in Lamay-
nerinmen?  We would call it mutual masturbation (at least that's how
*I* interpreted the Denden poem, which is why I entitled it _Lreen_
("Fingers") in my interpretation. =20

> So, on the whole, _qenan dilogh_ 'to copulate [with] oneself', or
> _yavai dilogh_ 'to love oneself, to make love to oneself', are not
> appropriate. Yet the final result is often quite related, so I think th=
at
> _bajan dilogh_ or _bajanir dilogh_ will be correct, and I confidently
> expect that if I ever find a text that deals with autostimulation,
> those will be the terms found.=20
I have the same confidence (sometimes) about the Teonaht texts I expect
to find, although often I'm surprised.  <G>

(For the translation of _bajan_ I'd like
> to refer people to the lexicon presented with the Denden version of the
> song _lamay neranmen_.) As the action itself is seen very much as being
> as transient as scratching, I don't think the verb will be concerned
> with the nature of that action.
I don't have a word in Teonaht.  The dictionary I was copying (so long
ago) into my little notebook didn't have it.  <G>  Suffice it to say
I don't have a word either for "mental masturbation."

Sally