Re: Spanish and Italian _r_ and _rr_ -- for my Romlang #3

>>caeruleancentaur skrev:
>> Two additional notes:
>>
>> 1) Word initial <r> /r/ is spelled <rr> when the word
>>    becomes a part of a compound word. "Guardarropa" (coat
>>    room) comes to mind immediately, formed from "guardar"
>>    (keep, guard, protect) and "ropa" (clothing).
>Benct Philip Jonsson <conlang@...> wrote:
>Interesting, rhough _guardarropa_ wouldn't seem to be an
>instance of it, if the first part of the compound is really
>the infinitive.
No, it is not the infinitive.  It is probably the 3rd person
singular meaning something like "it protects clothing."  Spanish has
quite a few words of this form, which I find delightful:

chupaflores = hummingbird, i.e., suck flowers
parabrisas = windshield, i.e., stop breezes
parasol = parasol, i.e., stop sun
paraguas = umbrella, i.e., stop waters (cf. French parapluie)
paracaídas = parachute, i.e., stop falls
parachoques = bumper, i.e., stop crashes
guardapuerta = storm door, i.e., protect door (you can see that it's
not the infinitive.)
etc., etc.

There are a bunch of them using the verb "portar," to carry:
portaaguja = needle-holder
portabandera = flagpole socket
portacarabina = carbine scabbard
portacartas = mailbag
portafusil = musket-sling (accent on the "i")
portalápiz = pencil-holder
portamonedas = purse
portavoz = megaphone
to name a few.

And here's a double one: portaparaguas = umbrella stand!

I think the form is used only with verbs of the -ar conjugation.  I
don't recall ever seeing -er or -ir verbs used.  It has great
potential for coining new words.

Someday I'm going to sit with my dictionary & make a list of all of
these verbs.  They are fascinating to me.  I wish I could use the
form in Senjecas.


>>caeruleancentaur skrev:
>> The <r> is doubled to indicate that the /r/ is retained, since it
>> would be /4/ otherwise. Cf. "perro" and "pero."
>Benct Philip Jonsson <conlang@...> wrote:
>I seem to remember that Monterey, California and Monterrey Mexico
>are spelled differently, though!
A good example: monte + rey = monterrey.


>>caeruleancentaur skrev:
>>2) When I lived in Honduras I was introduced to /r_0/, the
>>voiceless alveolar trill. Allophonic, of course, it occurs when
>><r> is final. My American contacts often tell me they hear
>><sh> /S/. I'm told that this is part of a Caribbean regional
>>accent.
>Benct Philip Jonsson <conlang@...> wrote:
>Are you sure Carribean Spanish /r/ isn't fricative? However that
>is? American English /r/ *is* fricative, which may cause Americans
>to perceive [r_0] as [S].
It may well be with some folks, but not with me.  I can feel my
tongue a-trillin' away.  What do you mean by "American
English /r/"?  I'm not aware that we have that phoneme in American
English (except, maybe, on the stage).  The only <r> that I know of
is /r\/ & that is an approximant, not a fricative.


>>caeruleancentaur skrev:
>>I understand that /r_0/ is phonemic in Welsh, spelled <rh> to
>>distinguish it from <r> /r/. It is a phoneme in my conlang
>>Senjecas.
>Benct Philip Jonsson <conlang@...> wrote:
>FWIW geminated /rr/ was alophonically voiceless in hellenistic
>Greek.
That is good to know.  It gives me a reason for its occurrence in
Senjecas.

The only allophones permitted in Senjecas are /U/ & /M/.  Of course,
pitch accent can be replaced by stress accent if necessary.

Charlie
http://wiki.frath.net/senjecas

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