Re: OT: /x\/ (was: English and front rounded vowels)
|From:||Paul Roser <pkroser@...>|
|Date:||Wednesday, December 12, 2007, 22:20|
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:20:18 +0100, Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...> wrote:
>On 2007-12-11 John Vertical wrote:
> > BTW, would you happen to kno if anyone actually
> > labiodentalizes the sound anymore? Lingual details aside
> > ([s`_P] ~ [f_G]...), that's what, over here in Finland,
> > is AIUI thought of as the "pedantical" pronunciation.
> > (While, as you say, "everyone sensible" here uses [S] ~
> > [s\] ~ [s`].)
>At least around here (the West Coast of Sweden) the strongly
>labi(odent)alized versions are receding but labialization as
>such is not gone. As for the 'pure' [x\] it ain't labialized
>but a [xS)] coarticulation. I have no idea about when and
>where it is or was spontaneously used.
>I've heard some people in the north of Sweden use /f/
>instead of /S/ in some loan words learnt from radio and
>television, BTW. I wonder if even [X] can sound like [f] to
>those who lack it in their own lect?
Wouldn't that be parallel to the English shift from /x/ to /f/ in words like
One of the things I love about this list is that I've probably learned more
about the phonetics and distribution of the various pronunciations of /x\/
here than I've been able to glean from any article in print on the topic.
A couple of questions about the usage of [X] for <skj> etc - how common is
this pronunciation in contemporary usage? I read something online that
implied it was most common among immigrant communities within Sweden. When I
was learning German many years ago my pronunciation of <ch> was a very
scrapy uvular fricative, verging on a voiceless uvular trill - would that be
acceptable in Swedish, or would it attract odd looks?
(And if any of our resident Welsh speakers are reading this, would it be
acceptable for Welsh <ch>? And what is the distinction between that and the
voiceless uvular trill realization of <rh> in Northern Wales?)
"Dreaming permits each and every one of us to be quietly and safely insane
night of our lives." -Charles Fisher