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Re: OT: /x\/ (was: English and front rounded vowels)

From:Paul Roser <pkroser@...>
Date:Wednesday, December 12, 2007, 22:20
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:20:18 +0100, Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...> wrote:

>On 2007-12-11 John Vertical wrote: > > BTW, would you happen to kno if anyone actually > > labiodentalizes the sound anymore? Lingual details aside > > ([s`_P] ~ [f_G]...), that's what, over here in Finland, > > is AIUI thought of as the "pedantical" pronunciation. > > (While, as you say, "everyone sensible" here uses [S] ~ > > [s\] ~ [s`].) > > > > > >At least around here (the West Coast of Sweden) the strongly >labi(odent)alized versions are receding but labialization as >such is not gone. As for the 'pure' [x\] it ain't labialized >but a [xS)] coarticulation. I have no idea about when and >where it is or was spontaneously used. > >I've heard some people in the north of Sweden use /f/ >instead of /S/ in some loan words learnt from radio and >television, BTW. I wonder if even [X] can sound like [f] to >those who lack it in their own lect?
Wouldn't that be parallel to the English shift from /x/ to /f/ in words like 'laugh'? One of the things I love about this list is that I've probably learned more about the phonetics and distribution of the various pronunciations of /x\/ here than I've been able to glean from any article in print on the topic. A couple of questions about the usage of [X] for <skj> etc - how common is this pronunciation in contemporary usage? I read something online that implied it was most common among immigrant communities within Sweden. When I was learning German many years ago my pronunciation of <ch> was a very scrapy uvular fricative, verging on a voiceless uvular trill - would that be acceptable in Swedish, or would it attract odd looks? (And if any of our resident Welsh speakers are reading this, would it be acceptable for Welsh <ch>? And what is the distinction between that and the voiceless uvular trill realization of <rh> in Northern Wales?) Regards, Bfowol ------- "Dreaming permits each and every one of us to be quietly and safely insane every night of our lives." -Charles Fisher


Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...>