Re: Da Mätz se Basa: Syntax

Henrik Theiling wrote:
> Hi!
>
> René Uittenbogaard <ruittenb@...> writes:
>
>>Henrik Theiling het geskryf:
>>
>>>René Uittenbogaard <ruittenb@...> comments on my posting:
>>>
>>>>Moenie die deur oopmaak voor die trein stilstaan nie.
>>>
>>>Wow, this is great!  It sounds so funny to my (a speaker of German and
>>>Dutch).  So funny!  (Included in grammar notes...:-))
>>
>>Yes, and it definitely sounds funny to many Dutch people. Luckily I'm in
>>the process of learning to interpret it more and more seriously.
>>Getting the impression that every sentence is funny becomes a hindrance
>>when the speaker/writer is in fact being serious.
>
> I handled it differently: for me it sounds funny, but when I learn it,
> it's no hindrance, it just goes away.
I suppose you have the advantage of actually learning the language - I
didn't actually learn Afrikaans, although I'm really interested in it.

> This happened in Dutch, which
> also sounds quite funny for most Germans, I suppose.
Really? I never heard that Dutch sounds funny to Germans.. I'll ask some
Germans I know :) It's strange, I always imagined that Afrikaners
probably felt bad about their language being laughed at by so many
Dutch, but now that I'm at the other end (Dutch sounding funny to
Germans), I'm actually amused :)

> But this feeling
> quickly disappears after the first grammar rules have to be learnt
> since they are different from the German ones... :-) Still some words
> are funny because the direct translation is funny.
> E.g. 'milieuverpesting' for 'Umweltverschmutzung'.  Or
> 'afvoerbuisontstopper' for 'Abflußreiniger'.
I'd say that 'gootsteenontstopper' is more common. And
'milieuverontreiniging' ('milieuverpesting' is not in my Wolters, but
OTOH, Dutch allows so many words to be compounded, that I usually don't
worry about whether a compound word is in the dictionary. But
'milieuverpesting' sounds funny to me, too).

> BTW: Do you have links to audio?
You could try the links listed at http://www.dieknoop.co.za/#luister .
I haven't tried these because I'm in Linux now, and I don't think I've
got a way to play mms:// links and wma-files.

>>... You state that in De Mätz se Basa, 'nich nä' is fine.
*Da* Mätz se Basa. Sorry.

>>Would
>>this also hold for sentences that leave out a constituent, like:
>>
>>Die reël lui dat 'n uitbreidende bysin deur 'n komma voorafgegaan word,
>>'n beperkende bysin nie.
>
> Yes, this will end in 'nich nä'.  I assume that
>
> '..., maar nie 'n beperkende bysin nie.'
>
> would also be valid in Afrikaans?  So the 'nie' above is a collapse of
> normal 'nie' and 'nie' complement, too, right?
TTBOMK, I guess that that would not be valid Afrikaans. But mind you,
I have never learned Afrikaans, I'm just trying to figure it out by
examining it.

I think the difference is illustrated by the following examples:

'n Voël kan vlieg, maar 'n koei nie.
A bird can fly, but a cow cannot.

Ek het 'n voël gesien, maar nie 'n koei nie.
I've seen a bird, but not a cow.

I guess this means that putting "nich nä" at the end of the sentence
introduces ambiguity. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing, though.

Baie groete,
René

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