Re: Da Mätz se Basa: Syntax

Hi!

René Uittenbogaard <ruittenb@...> writes:
> Henrik Theiling het geskryf:
>...
> > Thanks!  Currently my main problem seems to be that I want a funny
> > language without making it sound ridiculous.  Some sentences currently
> > sound ridiculous. :-)  I keep on changing and changing...
>
> Ridiculous? I didn't notice any :)
Oh, thanks again! :-)  Maybe I'm overly picky with my own language. :-)

>...
> >>Moenie die deur oopmaak voor die trein stilstaan nie.
> >
> > Wow, this is great!  It sounds so funny to my (a speaker of German and
> > Dutch).  So funny!  (Included in grammar notes...:-))
>
> Yes, and it definitely sounds funny to many Dutch people. Luckily I'm in
> the process of learning to interpret it more and more seriously.
> Getting the impression that every sentence is funny becomes a hindrance
> when the speaker/writer is in fact being serious.
I handled it differently: for me it sounds funny, but when I learn it,
it's no hindrance, it just goes away.  This happened in Dutch, which
also sounds quite funny for most Germans, I suppose.  But this feeling
quickly disappears after the first grammar rules have to be learnt
since they are different from the German ones... :-) Still some words
are funny because the direct translation is funny.
E.g. 'milieuverpesting' for 'Umweltverschmutzung'.  Or
'afvoerbuisontstopper' for 'Abflußreiniger'.

I think the similarity that makes access to Afrikkaans easy is just
the source for finding it funny, so it's not bad at all that it's
funny, it's just a good feeling that makes me seriously enjoy reading
texts.  The 'nie' complement is such a cool feature!

> So you are actually a speaker of Dutch? Cool, I don't know many foreign
> people who speak Dutch :)
Hihi. :-) Dutch people regularly react very delighted because they are
obviously used to being addressed in several languages by foreigners,
but not in Dutch.  Without asking, of course.  I stayed in Groningen
for five months to learn Dutch.  It's a bit rusty now, but it will
hopefully recover when I use the language more regularly next time.

> > And this shows the 'nie' position neatly.  But is it at the end of the
> > clause that contains the negation, skipping all subordinate clauses,
> > or is it at the *very* end of the top-level clause?
>
> The former. Other examples stolen from the web:
I had hoped so, it seems to make more sense.  I updated my site
accordingly already:

http://www.theiling.de/conlang/s9/s_03#04_01_06

> ... iemand wat nie juis kennis [...] gehad het nie,
> en dus maklik bedrieg kon word.
>...
> Hulle is nie sommer 'n groep mense [...] nie,
>    maar spesifieke militêre persone.
Ah, yes, thanks a lot! :-)

BTW: Do you have links to audio?

> ... You state that in De Mätz se Basa, 'nich nä' is fine. Would
> this also hold for sentences that leave out a constituent, like:
>
> Die reël lui dat 'n uitbreidende bysin deur 'n komma voorafgegaan word,
> 'n beperkende bysin nie.
Yes, this will end in 'nich nä'.  I assume that

'..., maar nie 'n beperkende bysin nie.'

would also be valid in Afrikaans?  So the 'nie' above is a collapse of
normal 'nie' and 'nie' complement, too, right?

However, two subsequent 'nä's collapse into one, too.

**Henrik

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