Re: Da Mätz se Basa: Syntax

Henrik Theiling het geskryf:

> Hi!
>
> René Uittenbogaard <ruittenb@...> comments on my posting:
>
>>Wow - nice language! And how curious to see a conlang that has nearly
>>exactly the same word order as Dutch.
>
> Thanks!  Currently my main problem seems to be that I want a funny
> language without making it sound ridiculous.  Some sentences currently
> sound ridiculous. :-)  I keep on changing and changing...
Ridiculous? I didn't notice any :)

>>But is it your intention to put the complement (changed to "nä", I
>>see) in the same clause where the first negation ("nich") appears?
>>Afrikaans puts the complement *after* any subordinate clause:
>
> Oops!  Indeed, I oversaw this.  (...checking some grammar notes...)
> This feature occured in my sample sentences from Afrikaans, too.  I
> even could hardly understand one of the sentences because of this, but
> still did not notice the difference. :-)
>
>>As die weervoorspelling saans gelees word, weet ons veral nie waar wat
>>[...] gaan gebeur nie.
>
> Aha!
>
> BTW, I included 'saans' in the grammar notes.
>
>>Moenie die deur oopmaak voor die trein stilstaan nie.
>
> Wow, this is great!  It sounds so funny to my (a speaker of German and
> Dutch).  So funny!  (Included in grammar notes...:-))
Yes, and it definitely sounds funny to many Dutch people. Luckily I'm in
the process of learning to interpret it more and more seriously.
Getting the impression that every sentence is funny becomes a hindrance
when the speaker/writer is in fact being serious.

So you are actually a speaker of Dutch? Cool, I don't know many foreign
people who speak Dutch :)

> And this shows the 'nie' position neatly.  But is it at the end of the
> clause that contains the negation, skipping all subordinate clauses,
> or is it at the *very* end of the top-level clause?
The former. Other examples stolen from the web:

... iemand wat nie juis kennis [...] gehad het nie,
en dus maklik bedrieg kon word.
... someone that not correct knowledge [...] possessed had not-COMPL,
and therefore easily cheated could be.
... someone who didn't have correct knowledge [...],
and so could easily be cheated.

Hulle is nie sommer 'n groep mense [...] nie,
   maar spesifieke militêre persone.
They are not just a group-of people [...] not-COMPL,
   but specific military people.

> Thanks a lot for noting!
You're welcome. This "nie"-business reminds me of something else.
In Afrikaans, the complement is left out when the first "nie" ends the
sentence. You state that in De Mätz se Basa, 'nich nä' is fine. Would
this also hold for sentences that leave out a constituent, like:

Die reël lui dat 'n uitbreidende bysin deur 'n komma voorafgegaan word,
'n beperkende bysin nie.
The rule states that an expanding subclause by a comma preceded is,
a restricting subclause not.

Baie groete,
René

Reply