Re: Rubaga Phones

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:12:36 -0000, Keith Gaughan
<kgaughan@...> wrote:

>From: Stephen Mulraney [mailto:ataltanie@OCEANFREE.NET]
>
>> > >There's nothing like a retroflex trill in IPA (and I can't
>> > >see how to mark it). I replaced it here by the tap.
>> >
>> > Are you sure? Isn't the Irish /r/ usually a retroflex trill?
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>> Irish English, I'd say that for me it's usually an approximant.
>> I was going to write 'alveolar approximant', but I just had a
>> revelation while reading your sentence - it *is* a retroflex
>> articulation, for me anyway. Oh, rhotic dialect so
>> <hard> /ha`r\`/ :: <run>  /r\`Un/
>> Wow! I never realised I had a real retroflex!
(to Stephen: I had meant Gaelic, but it looks like my ambiguity was
useful. Glad to be of service!)

>> Irish Gaelic - often just the speaker's English <r> (recall the
>> discussion a month or so ago about the astonising mutual
>> intelligibility of <r> sounds?) but often, again for me,
>> an alveolar tap /4/ (I love that sound).
>
>Just for the record, my palatalised one is a trill. I think it
>must vary across the country. I like how phonologically rich
>Irish is. That and it's funny to watch foreigners who are confused
>by the orthography :-)
Hi Keith, Thanks for the input. It's good to know I'm not completely wrong.

I read that confusing TYI Irish book several years ago and got the idea
that all R's were trilled, but they seemed to focus on the extreme SW part
of Ireland.

Speaking of orthography, here's the set of phones for each consonant
letter, current version:

{b} : [b], [v], [v_j], [w]
{c} : [k], [c], [k_w], [x], [x_w], [X] or [R\_0]
{d} : [d], [d_Z], [D], [D_w], [Z], [z]
{f} : [f], [f_j], [p\_w]
{g} : [g], [g_w], [J\], [G], [G_w], [j\], [R] or [R\], [N], [N_w]
{h} : [h], [C], possibly [h_w]
{l} : [l], [L] or [j], [L\_w] or [w]
{m} : [m]
{n} : [n], [J]
{p} : [p]
{r} : [r`], [r]
{s} : [s], [S]
{t} : [t], [t_S], [T], [T_w]

enjoy!

Jeff J.