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Re: Werewolf

From:R A Brown <ray@...>
Date:Monday, September 18, 2006, 17:50
Chris Bates wrote:
>> Yep - even the versions I gave with 'wolf' first support the point >> that 'wolf' is the head of the phrase and the 'man/human' word is the >> attribute. It does seem that people regarded these creatures as >> essentially wolves trapped for the most part in humanoid form, rather >> than humans who occasionally got transmogrified into wolves. >
[snip]
> I would argue that in English, semantically at least, a werewolf is seen > as a man who turns into a wolf, and not as a wolf who turns into a man.
That's because you're loving in the 21st century. Clearly to our Saxon forebears it was a 'man-wolf'. I was trying to make sense out of compounds formed many centuries ago when people took such creatures more seriously. But without a detailed research it is surely not possible to say how peoples a millennium ago and two millennia ago regarded such creatures. ==================================
> Den 18. sep. 2006 kl. 16.07 skrev Chris Bates: > >> I would argue that in English, semantically at least, a werewolf is seen as a >> man who turns into a wolf, and not as a wolf who turns into a man. > > > Perhaps he reveals his true nature when he turns into a wolf(?)
Quite so. If one believes in such creatures, this would seem to me a perfectly natural way to think. ===================================
> 2006/9/16, R A Brown <ray@...>:
[snip]
>> > But if it is used in Vulgar Latin, >> >> It wasn't - you're compound is likely, given the scenario of your language. > > > Might LUPONE be a possible formation?
?Vulgar Latin *lupone would presumably mean "wolflet', methinks.
> I guess one might get > _lobóu_ from LUPU HOMO in R3, but how realistic would *that* be?
One could imagine *luphomo (gen. *luphominis) - where |ph| = [p_h] - being formed as a calque of the Greek 'lykanthropos'. This would have given a Vulgar Latin *lupOmne [snip]
> assuming HOMINE > *omne > *omme > /uom/, provided that > M'N > mm *is* a realistic change for a Romance language
It happened in Old French, i.e. (h)omme = 'man'
> -- I want it to be but I'm not so sure! What's the track by which > HOMINE became _homme_ but HOMO became _on_ in French?
The nom. (h)Omo --> /Om/ --> /0~/. The later was spelled _(h)om_ in Old French. But the sound /O~/ could equally well be spelled *(h)on, and when it became dissociated from _(h)omme_ and took on a new role as a pronoun, the simple spelling _on_ was adopted. *There never was a change /m/ --> /n/*
> And what's the story behind DOMINU > _Dom_ as an ecclesiatical > appellative (if that is the right word?)
Used AFAIK principally by the Benedictine order.
> I'm not even sure in what language DOMINU > _Dom_ might have happened!
Portuguese. AFAIK the
> regular outcome is _don_ in both Spanish and Italian, with > _doña/donna_ < DOMINA. Is _Dom_ archaic French?
Nope - it's Portuguese, see above. Why the Benedictines should have adopted this form when other took the Spanish/Italian 'Don' I know not. -- Ray ================================== ray@carolandray.plus.com http://www.carolandray.plus.com ================================== Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu. There's none too old to learn. [WELSH PROVERB}

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R A Brown <ray@...>Dom (was: Werewolf)