Re: "real" names in Chevraqis

On Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 05:12:29PM -0400, Yoon Ha Lee wrote:
> I felt bored and wanted to mangle-ate names....
Were you, by any chance, spurred to do so by my previous post of
name-mangling? :-P

[snip]
> Chevraqis has a fairly strict syllable structure and thus the bad habit
> of inserting "i" (/i/ or /I/) or "u" (/u-/) between difficult consonant
> clusters, as well as screwing up other sounds.
Heh. In my conlang, consonants are simply dropped. Which ones get dropped
are quite arbitrary. For example:
        co'mi (masc. singular intimate pronoun)
becomes:
        myycii' in the nullar.
This is because vowel shortening happens during the formation of the
nullar -- so "cu'mi" gets shortened to "cmi", and "cm" is an illegal
consonant cluster; so the "m" drops out and the "i" lengthens to
compensate.

> Note: I make no claim that the pronunciation on which I based the
> mangle-ation of a given name is actually correct.
Hmm, mangle-fest. Allow me to add to the mess :-P

>
> Yune Kyung Lee (my sister) = Yun Kiyan Ri (or I, or Li in Avren Chevraqis)
`yu'n koong lii'.       [y?un ko:N li:] (Kirsch)

I don't know what's the IPA symbol to use for the breathing mark on the
feminine proper name prefix "`y-" -- unmarked initial vowels are
pronounced with a preceding glottal stop; the "`" mark means a smooth
intonation (no glottal stop). A "h" in the orthography means a "rough"
breathing (ala Attic Greek) which is pronounced [h].

Apostrophes (') indicate high-pitched syllables.

> Yoon Ha Lee = Yun Ha Ri (or I, or Li in Avren Chevraqis)
`yu'n ha lii'.  [y?un ha li:]

> Christophe Grandsire = Kristov Qranusir
eKrii'sof gr~ee'sair.   [Ek<h>*.i:soF g*.E:sa?i*.]

(Whoa, the IPA transcription for this one looks nasty! :-P)

> Sally Caves = Sari (or Sali in Avren) Kaévis
`ysali' kee's   [ysali kE:s]

(Notice the total dropping out of the "v" sound due to consonant
clustering. If it were present, it'd be pronounced [B] because there are
no labiodental fricatives in the lang.)

> Dan Sulani = Dan Surani (or Sulani)
ede'n su'lani.  [EdEn sulani]

> Dan Seriff = Dan Seriv
ede'n s3rii'f.  [EdEn sV"*.i:F]

> Dirk Elzinga = Diruk Eruzika, Eruzinuka
ed33'k eezi'nga.        [EdV":k E:ziNa]

> Taliesin = Taraíesin (um, assuming Taliesin is pronounced something like
>   tuh-lie-eh-sin, which I bet it ain't)
eta'liisin.     [Etali:sin]

> Marcus Smith = Marukus Simitu
emaa'k3s mii'th [Ema:kV"s mi:T]

The nice thing about this name is that the first word ends with [s], so
the initial [s] in the next word can simply be dropped out ("sm" isn't an
allowed cluster) and it still sounds somewhat the same. :-P

> Jonathan Chang = Janatan Chanuku
ej0'n3th3n Ca'ng        [EJOnV:TV:n c<h>aN]

> Nicole Perrin = Nikor (or Nikol) Berin
`ynikoo'l p3ri'n        [yniko:l pV"*.in]

> Apologies to those who were included and didn't want to be, and those who
> weren't included and might've wanted to have been.  (Teoh, I can't even
> guess how your name is pronounced....)
Ah, the classic problem of how to pronounce my name :-P The problem is, my
name is pronounced differently in Hokkien (my mothertongue) and Mandarin,
which doesn't at all help English speakers who usually pronounce it a
third way :-P

Anyway, here's approximately what it sounds like (assuming I didn't munge
up my IPA sounds, which I most probably did):

Hokkien:        [ti~O~1 hui4 sV"n1]
                (Note: the tone numbers are probably totally incorrect. I
                borrowed the closest Mandarin's tone numbers since that's
                what I know. Douglas Koller: care to give the right tone
                numbers here? :-P)

Mandarin:       [tSaN1 huE4 CV:N1]
                (Not sure about the [tS], I *think* it's right. The tone
                numbers are definitely correct here :-P)

English:        [t<h>i:o huE CEN]       or
                [t<h>i:o huI CEN]       or even
                [t<h>i:o hui CEN]
                This pronunciation is probably a result of the way I spell
                my name in English... and no, it certainly sounds nowhere
                near what it "should" be.

Oh, yes, what happens to my name in my conlang? Hmm... depends on where I
start, I suppose. Perhaps I'll start from the Hokkien, which would give:

eti~0' hui' s3n.        [Eti?O~ hu?i sV"n]

Of course, once I develop my conlang enough, I'd pick a native name for
myself. This mangled version is just too cumbersome (and ugly :-P) to deal
with.


T