Re: L1 learning question

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Carlos Thompson <cthompso@...>
Fecha: Lunes 28 de Septiembre de 1998 02:48
Asunto: Re: L1 learning question


>-----Mensaje original-----
>De: Nik Taylor <fortytwo@...>
>Fecha: Lunes 28 de Septiembre de 1998 01:41
>Asunto: Re: L1 learning question

>>Related question: where did the _sentir_/_morir_ type (which changes th=
e
>>-e-/-o- to -ie-/-ue- or -i-/-u- depending on place), and _pedir_ type
>>(which changes -e- to -i-) come from?
>
>If we use the regular cunterparts of _sentir_/_morir_ for the indicative
>mode indefinite past, third person singular: *_sentio'_/*_morio'_

Oops!  I send this without finnishing.

Well, as I said, those regular forms, compared with the correct ones
_sintio'_/_murio'_ where the -i-/-u- change is done, occure only in third
conjugation: -ir, so I belive is part from that conjugation.  Also _pedir=
_
is a third conjugation verb.  Some other irregular verb of the form e-ir:

Regular: vivir; vivo, vive; vivi', vivio'
e-ie-i change: sentir; siento, siente; senti', sintio'
i-ie change: adquirir; adquiero, adquiere; adquiri', adquirio'
e-i change: pedir; pido, pide; pedi', pidio'
irregular: decir; digo, dice; dije, dijo (even irregular stress)
irregular: venir; vengo, viene; vine, vino (even irregular stress).
o-ue-u change: morir, muero, muere; mori', murio'
irregular: oir; oigo, oye; oi', oyo'
defective: abolir; -, -; aboli', abolio'

it seems -ir verbs are very irregular and I could believe many of them ar=
e
form disimilation.

The e-ie-i change: sentir, ad/con-vertir, cernir, con/di-ferir, digerir
The e-i change: pedir, competir, (con)seguir
The o-ue-u change: morir, dormir.

Then, those changes shoud has been regular e-ie and o-ue changes, combine=
d
with some other kind of change (like that in _pedir_) from some other sou=
rce
related with the -ir ending.


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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
In replay from Nik

> Carlos Thompson wrote:
> > By the way: What does the apostrophe means in desperta'is/sespierta'i=
s?
> > Does Chicanos use the second person plural?  I would believe that, as
most
> > Spanish dialects from the Americas, Chicanos would use _ustedes_, whi=
ch
> > follow the third person plural.
>
> The apostrophe indicates an acute vowel.  Some e-mail programs won't
> read symbols like =E1 properly.  As for the Chicano -a'is, I was surpri=
sed
> too.  I didn't think they used it at all, but I was just quoting
> verbatim.
I would see -a'is as bad orthography and therefor I dubted.  But then I
realize is finnal syllabe stress, ending with -s, so stress should be mar=
ked
even if it is not a pure /s/ consonant sound (-/ajs/).  =3D)