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Re: L1 learning question

From:Carlos Thompson <cthompso@...>
Date:Monday, September 28, 1998, 8:52
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Carlos Thompson <cthompso@...>
Fecha: Lunes 28 de Septiembre de 1998 02:48
Asunto: Re: L1 learning question

>-----Mensaje original----- >De: Nik Taylor <fortytwo@...> >Fecha: Lunes 28 de Septiembre de 1998 01:41 >Asunto: Re: L1 learning question
>>Related question: where did the _sentir_/_morir_ type (which changes th=
>>-e-/-o- to -ie-/-ue- or -i-/-u- depending on place), and _pedir_ type >>(which changes -e- to -i-) come from? > >If we use the regular cunterparts of _sentir_/_morir_ for the indicative >mode indefinite past, third person singular: *_sentio'_/*_morio'_
Oops! I send this without finnishing. Well, as I said, those regular forms, compared with the correct ones _sintio'_/_murio'_ where the -i-/-u- change is done, occure only in third conjugation: -ir, so I belive is part from that conjugation. Also _pedir= _ is a third conjugation verb. Some other irregular verb of the form e-ir: Regular: vivir; vivo, vive; vivi', vivio' e-ie-i change: sentir; siento, siente; senti', sintio' i-ie change: adquirir; adquiero, adquiere; adquiri', adquirio' e-i change: pedir; pido, pide; pedi', pidio' irregular: decir; digo, dice; dije, dijo (even irregular stress) irregular: venir; vengo, viene; vine, vino (even irregular stress). o-ue-u change: morir, muero, muere; mori', murio' irregular: oir; oigo, oye; oi', oyo' defective: abolir; -, -; aboli', abolio' it seems -ir verbs are very irregular and I could believe many of them ar= e form disimilation. The e-ie-i change: sentir, ad/con-vertir, cernir, con/di-ferir, digerir The e-i change: pedir, competir, (con)seguir The o-ue-u change: morir, dormir. Then, those changes shoud has been regular e-ie and o-ue changes, combine= d with some other kind of change (like that in _pedir_) from some other sou= rce related with the -ir ending. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D In replay from Nik
> Carlos Thompson wrote: > > By the way: What does the apostrophe means in desperta'is/sespierta'i=
> > Does Chicanos use the second person plural? I would believe that, as
> > Spanish dialects from the Americas, Chicanos would use _ustedes_, whi=
> > follow the third person plural. > > The apostrophe indicates an acute vowel. Some e-mail programs won't > read symbols like =E1 properly. As for the Chicano -a'is, I was surpri=
> too. I didn't think they used it at all, but I was just quoting > verbatim.
I would see -a'is as bad orthography and therefor I dubted. But then I realize is finnal syllabe stress, ending with -s, so stress should be mar= ked even if it is not a pure /s/ consonant sound (-/ajs/). =3D)