Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: NATLANG: What's the sound of Castilian <s>?

From:Roger Mills <romilly@...>
Date:Sunday, December 7, 2003, 17:30
Andreas Johansson wrote:
(Quoting somebody)

> > [T] for _all_ /s/? I've never heard that -- often [T] for /s/ /_i,e --
> > then again I've never listened carefully around Spanish speakers so I
> > just be imposing on them what my textbooks tell me they "should" be
> > Spain Spanish, btw. I know the situation is different in Chicano and
> > American Spanishes. > > Apparently, there's some Andalusian dialects that have merged /s/ and /T/
> [T] everywhere - a Spanish guy with whom I spoke of dialects a few days
> had nothing good to say about them! >
Oh those Andalusians!! Actually, that sound more like hypercorrection to me, on the order of oft-cited [bil'baDo] for "Bilbao"-- but ¿quién sabe? While I'm at it-- one doesn't often get a chance to correct the Incredible Mr. Cowan, but: _ceceo_ refers to the pronunciation of /z/ and /c/-before front V as [T], nothing to do with /s/. I think most Castillians would gasp to hear someone lisp their /s/'s. _Seseo_ does refer to the merger of both /T/ and /s/ > /s/. Whether that /s/ comes out as apical or laminal seems to vary by region or even by individuals Also a self-correction/modification-- the apical [s] doesn't _have_ to involve curling the tongue tip back, but merely raising it a bit so that the friction occurs between the tip and the upper teeth. Whereas in laminal [s], the tip is most likely touching the lower teeth, and the sibilance occurs between the body of the tongue just behind the tip and the alveolar idge. --Once upon a time these were distinguished as "slit" vs. "groove" fricatives, but those terms I think are now passé (and I never quite understood which was which anyway.........) I've always suspected that the reason why one hears apical [s] from so many elderly, is that they have ill-fitting dentures. :-(( Roger, who still has all his teeth :-)) ObConlang!! Oh dear-- how will we say "denture" in Kash. hici volu? tooth man-made? Naah, don't like it.... Yesterday I was making example sentences with "unless"and "except", but got sidetracked and discovered the following instead: yalambik (formal), yala-yala, yalaci, yalambici ~yalapici ~lalapici 'drinks, in genl., as a social occasion, more spec. cocktails, drinks before dinner' (< yala '(drinking) glass') tahambik 'hors d'oeuvres, ~tapas' (dish-little) tahañom ~tañom 'main course' (dish-basis) tahanjami ~tanjami 'dessert' (dish-sweet) (tahan- itself is a variant of andahan 'food' < nahan 'eat') Odd how the mind works.


Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>NATLANG: What's the sound of Cast ilian <s>?