Re: CHAT: Religions (was: Visible planets)

--- Isidora Zamora <isidora@...> wrote:

> The Mystical Supper.
Thanks! That's what I was looking for. A little
fuller sounding than "Last Supper"; but both have
a good point to the name.

> Eastern Church buildings, and the physical
> building is called a "temple,"
> are laid out like the Jewish temple.  The
> sanctuary (the part behind the
> iconostasis) is the Holy of Holies, and the
> Iconostasis is the curtain that
> separates it from the Holy Place - the nave.
Well, that explains it. I still don't hold with
it, though! ;)

> Yes, I had forgotten that it was a matter of
> rubrics whether the Royal
> Doors are opened and shut during the Liturgy or
> are left
> open.  Conservative rubrics have the Doors
> opening and shutting all the
> time, and there is also a curtain that is drawn
> at times behind the Royal
> Doors, at least in Russian practice.  The
> curtain would probably drive you nuts.
Yes. The iconostasis with its wee little doors is
bad enough. To have them drawing the curtains all
the time is no better!

> There are absolutely always at least two icons
> out for veneration (Christ
> and the Theotokos), plus there is often a
> seasonal one.
Hm. These churches only had one out that I could
see. Now, the Ruthenian church had a side chapel
with icons out, and I think the Theotokos was
over there.

Oo, yes. They also had a hand cross out on that
little tetrapod for veneration. I like the idea
of hand crosses, too (I have an Ethiopian
Orthodox hand cross).

> In addition to
> this, the walls are generally fitted out with
> as many icons as there is
> room for.  The cathedral of St. John the
> Baptist in D.C. has these
> beautiful stitched icons (they're as good
> quality as painted ones.)
Will have to make a visit down there some time.
An actual cathedral would be something to see.
Now, is this an Orthodox cathedral? Must be, as
the Eastern Catholic bishop is up in NJ.

> They
> also have an amazing number of relics out for
> veneration.  You really need
> to come to Church half an hour or so early just
> to take your time
> venerating all the icons and relics.  (It helps
> if you know the letters in
> the Church Slavonic azbuka, however, because
> practically everything is
> labeled in Slavonic.  (It's always nice to know
> exactly whom you are venerating, you know.))
No worries there! I can sort out most of the
letters (some of the ligatures are troublesome,
though); and know enough Greek to pick out most
of the characters.

> Holy Friday, the Cross is out, until vespers,
> when it is taken down.  After
> that, there is the plaschenitsa (sp?) to
> venerate.
Sounds foreign. That's a neat idea, though! And
makes sense in light of happened next.

> It represents the
> burial shroud of Christ.  It's a cloth icon of
> Christ after He has been taken down from the
> Cross.
Is it always cloth? Is the image painted on or
stitched?

> It is placed on the
> tomb (for which I know
> neither the Slavonic nor the Greek word) with a
> Gospel book and
> venerated.  As with the Cross, we make
> prostrations in front of it before
> venerating it.  Actually, the Cross is out for
> Veneration three times
> during the year, on the third Sunday of Great
> Lent (and this is the only
> time when we are allowed to make prostrations
> on a Sunday), on the evening
> of Holy Thursday through Vespers of Holy
> Friday, and at the Exaltation of
> the Holy Cross in September.
Prostrations being?

> In any case, there is *always* something out to
> venerate.
You don't even get that much in RC churches
anymore. Our parish used to set out the Eucharist
for veneration, but the place is too busy now...

> >  The altar itself was
> >nicely adorned, and the vestments were
> slightly
> >different and much more pleasing than the
> tired
> >polyester retro-70s look you still get in many
> >Roman vestements and decorative styles.
>
> Eastern vestments are awfully nice.  I think
> they get hot, though.  A fully
> vested Orthodox priest will be wearing, from
> the bottom up, street clothes,
!! You mean they wear actual clothes under the
cassock!? Gosh. I don't think Catholic priests
do. I mean, shorts, obviously! But not like jeans
and whatever.

> an undercassock, a cassock, then two layers of
> vestments.  The best
> liturgical brocades that I have seen come from
> Greece.  The priest at the
> Antiocian parish in Lexington has a couple sets
> from Greece.  The red ones
> feature a metallic gold wheat motif, and the
> white (Paschal) ones have
> circles made of interlaced whatevers, and
> inside the circles is:
>
> IC | XC
> _____
> NI | KA
>
> (Well, sort of.  That's the best ASCCI art I
> can do.)  It's an abbreviation
> for "Jesus Christ conquers by the Cross.
That's one I know well! I used to write the names
of confirmati in the parish register and would
decorate the pages with similar symbols.

> >And although I did a stint as church organist
> >(Methodist), I really am drawn to the idea of
> a
> >sung liturgy where people actually
> participate.
> >[Personally, I am sure the Cambriese Liturgy,
> >from Ill Bethisad, is sung as well.] I also
> liked
> >the Byzantine Mass I went to cos even the
> >readings and the Gospel were sung. I'd only
> ever
> >heard the Gospel sung once in a RC Mass and
> liked
> >the sound of that very much.
>
> There are different sorts of reading styles,
> depending on the nationality
> and musicality of the clergy involved.
Naturally.

> So how often do you attend an Eastern Rite
> parish?
I don't regularly attend any church; recently
it's been at about 85% Eastern, though.

I should note that older churches, and Eastern
churches in particular, were the inspiration for
the design of Telerani temples (stopas).
Excepting the iconostasis, of course! That is
actually part of the back wall, though there are
analogues to the Deacons Doors which access the
Fire Chamber. I'm not sure about an analogue to
the Royal Doors, though. The nave itself is an
empty rectangular space, usually with a mosaicked
floor and plain stone walls. Often the walls are
decorated with icons (hatretôs) or are plastered
and carved with floral and similar designs like
old Spanish mosques or the Catacombs. There is
always an icon of St. Thomas (Aças Tomas
Sharmapatiças) near the door (almost every
household has an icon of him in the doorway!),
him being the Apostle to the Orient in the World.

Both Christians and Waymen use the same temples,
and often are served by the same priests. The
iconostasis is usually left covered with wooden
plates that have painted on it the World Tree (a
symbol common to both forms of religion); and
only at certain liturgies in the Christian year
is it revealed. I'm not sure which icons are
there - almost certainly the Mystical Meal, Jesus
and Mary Magdalen, the regional patron saint, and
perhaps the four great Angels and the eight
Gospel Writers. I think the Christian liturgy in
use in Teleran is similar to ancient Eastern
models. I found an online source somewhere that
pointed to translated liturgies from very ancient
times...

Padraic.


=====
la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.


--

Ill Bethisad --
<http://www.geocities.com/elemtilas/ill_bethisad>


Come visit The World! --
<http://www.geocities.com/hawessos/>







.

Reply