Re: CHAT: Religions (was: Visible planets)

> > What have you got against the iconostasis?
> > That it blocks your view?
>
>How Western of me!! ;) Don't get me wrong, I like
>the icons themselves, and prefer them to statues.
>I really don't like the idea of not being able to
>witness what's going on around the altar. The
>whole point of Mass was to commemorate the Last
>Supper (I forget what the Eastern churches call
>it);
The Mystical Supper.

>  and I don't think Jesus went off into a
>secluded place to take care of business. This
>probably comes in part from the fact that since
>the 1960s, RC churches switched from using the
>high altar (which is oriented like altars in
>Eastern churches) to using a central altar table
>which is plainly visible. My whole experience in
>churches of any denomination has been one of
>plain visibility. Even in the Tridentine Mass,
>you can see what the priest is doing at least.
Eastern Church buildings, and the physical building is called a "temple,"
are laid out like the Jewish temple.  The sanctuary (the part behind the
iconostasis) is the Holy of Holies, and the Iconostasis is the curtain that
separates it from the Holy Place - the nave.

> > The
> > view is better during Bright Week (the week
> > including and following
> > Pascha=Easter.)  During Bright Week, the Royal
> > Doors and the Deacon's doors
> > are all wide open all week, as are the doors
> > (if there are any) to the narthex.
>
>Now, I went to a Byzantine Liturgy a couple
>months ago and the Royal Doors were indeed closed
>except for, I think when they either brought the
>Gospel out or when they brought the gifts out.
>(Can't recall the precise moment now.) When I was
>up in Syracuse last month (first Sunday of
>October, and it was Ruthenian), the Royal Doors
>were open for the whole Liturgy.
Yes, I had forgotten that it was a matter of rubrics whether the Royal
Doors are opened and shut during the Liturgy or are left
open.  Conservative rubrics have the Doors opening and shutting all the
time, and there is also a curtain that is drawn at times behind the Royal
Doors, at least in Russian practice.  The curtain would probably drive you
nuts.

> > So what other decorations made up for the
> > presence of the iconostasis?
>Well, the icons themselves, for one are a big
>draw. I also like placing a varying icon out in
>the nave for veneration. (The only object of
>veneration in the RC church that I'm aware of is
>on Good Friday when they put out a big cross in
>the floor of the nave.)
There are absolutely always at least two icons out for veneration (Christ
and the Theotokos), plus there is often a seasonal one.  In addition to
this, the walls are generally fitted out with as many icons as there is
room for.  The cathedral of St. John the Baptist in D.C. has these
beautiful stitched icons (they're as good quality as painted ones.)  They
also have an amazing number of relics out for veneration.  You really need
to come to Church half an hour or so early just to take your time
venerating all the icons and relics.  (It helps if you know the letters in
the Church Slavonic azbuka, however, because practically everything is
labeled in Slavonic.  (It's always nice to know exactly whom you are
venerating, you know.))

Holy Friday, the Cross is out, until vespers, when it is taken down.  After
that, there is the plaschenitsa (sp?) to venerate.  It represents the
burial shroud of Christ.  It's a cloth icon of Christ after He has been
taken down from the Cross.  It is placed on the tomb (for which I know
neither the Slavonic nor the Greek word) with a Gospel book and
venerated.  As with the Cross, we make prostrations in front of it before
venerating it.  Actually, the Cross is out for Veneration three times
during the year, on the third Sunday of Great Lent (and this is the only
time when we are allowed to make prostrations on a Sunday), on the evening
of Holy Thursday through Vespers of Holy Friday, and at the Exaltation of
the Holy Cross in September.

In any case, there is *always* something out to venerate.

>  The altar itself was
>nicely adorned, and the vestments were slightly
>different and much more pleasing than the tired
>polyester retro-70s look you still get in many
>Roman vestements and decorative styles.
Eastern vestments are awfully nice.  I think they get hot, though.  A fully
vested Orthodox priest will be wearing, from the bottom up, street clothes,
an undercassock, a cassock, then two layers of vestments.  The best
liturgical brocades that I have seen come from Greece.  The priest at the
Antiocian parish in Lexington has a couple sets from Greece.  The red ones
feature a metallic gold wheat motif, and the white (Paschal) ones have
circles made of interlaced whatevers, and inside the circles is:

IC | XC
_____
NI | KA

(Well, sort of.  That's the best ASCCI art I can do.)  It's an abbreviation
for "Jesus Christ conquers by the Cross.

>And although I did a stint as church organist
>(Methodist), I really am drawn to the idea of a
>sung liturgy where people actually participate.
>[Personally, I am sure the Cambriese Liturgy,
>from Ill Bethisad, is sung as well.] I also liked
>the Byzantine Mass I went to cos even the
>readings and the Gospel were sung. I'd only ever
>heard the Gospel sung once in a RC Mass and liked
>the sound of that very much.
There are different sorts of reading styles, depending on the nationality
and musicality of the clergy involved.  Our priest is not especially
musical, but that's ok.  Some days, our choir isn't, either, especially if
the director is sick.  That's not so ok.  But we muddle through
anyway.  It's a relatively small parish that we go to.

So how often do you attend an Eastern Rite parish?

Isidora

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