Re: The Combos [hj] [hw] and [gw] in Conlangs

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, DOUGLAS KOLLER wrote:

>From: "LeoMoser(Acadon@Acadon.com)"
>
>> In-re HJ:
Not specifically outlawed in Talarian, but Kj groups tend to simplify
to the simple consonant: my -> m; hly -> l; etc. Such shifted sounds
are found in borrowed words.

>> In-re HW:
>
>> What other natural or constructed languages
>> make use of [hw-] or have (more or less)
>> similar sounds?
>
>Not allowed in Géarthnuns.
(Some dialects at least of) Quechua has it.

If Talarian ever had it, it would have been levelled to some kind of
simple 'h' sound (like kw, gw, tw, dw -> h) gwh -> xh (which generally
assimilates to x). Borrowed kw and hw -> h; borrowed gw -> q. A couple
of the local Germanic languages have hw, though, which is where
Talarian gets some of its hw words from.

Kerno doesn't have it. It does have a wh digraph, which is simply the
convention for showing where a mutation might occur on a w, if w could
really be mutated: ys wedh / sa whedh (he sees/she sees).

>> In-re GW:
>
>
>> This would imply that [gw-] may not be very
>> common beyond the western European area.
>
>Though you've cited the major East Asian languages.
>
>This is certainly allowed in Géarthnuns: "gwans" - "lock", "gwérabs" -
>"might, strength", "gwaul" - "croak (ref. to frogs)", "gwédiz" - "set foot
>in, enter".
It's "allowed" in Talarian in that it gets transformed into [q].

Brithenig and Kerno have it.

To my knowledge, French had (/have?) it, Spanish has it, Welsh and
Cornish have it. Of course English has it.

Padraic.

>You've made an interesting observation. Alas, I wish I knew some other
>languages with these sounds that I could throw your way. Me, I've always
>thought it strange that many conlangs (including my own) have [T] and/or [D]
>which, I've assumed, are relatively rare out there in real lang land. For my
>lang, it was because, my assuming they were rare, it added to the exoticism
>back when I cared about such things and the language was first forming. "Hj"
>and "gw" never even crossed my mind as exotic; they were just natural
>extensions of the Géarthnuns sound system. By rights, "hw" ought to be
>possible too, but orthographic constraints elbow it out of the system.
>
>Kou
>