Re: The Combos [hj] [hw] and [gw] in Conlangs

From: "LeoMoser(Acadon@Acadon.com)"

> In-re HJ:
> Japanese seems to
> have it, with romanizations with {HY-} but I'm
> not sure how  these end up pronounced in
> certain parts of Japan.
Well, I can't speak for all of Japan, but in the standard, it's certainly
allowed. "Hyaku" (hundred) springs readily to mind. A good number of words
with "hyo" or "hyoo". The only word with "hyu" I can think of right now is a
loan: "hyuuzu" for English "fuse".

> It is in some Chinese
> "dialects" but not Mandarin.
Hokkien and Hakka allow it.

> Can any of you cite languages that make
> regular use of [hj] or close approximations?
Géarthnuns allows it: "híozçets" - "program", "híenzöth" - "destroy",
"híau" - "all".

> In-re HW:
> Chinese has many words in {HUA} {HUO}
> etc. those these differ a bit in that the {H}
> may be [x], not [h].
[x] and [h] are allophones, so I think it's fair to let (Mandarin) Chinese
into the "hw" club. Shanghainese, Hokkien, and Hakka lean more to [h] to my
ear and all allow it.

> What other natural or constructed languages
> make use of [hw-] or have (more or less)
> similar sounds?
Not allowed in Géarthnuns.

> In-re GW:
>Chinese has
> it (in the unvoiced/unaspirated form).
Shanghainese and Cantonese have similar.

Hokkien has the voiced form and "gw" is allowed: "ggwa2", "I".

> Probably not in Japanese,
> despite "guai" (condition) etc.
Off hand, I am not familiar with this word and have no idea how one would
write it in kana.

> This would imply that [gw-] may not be very
> common beyond the western European area.
Though you've cited the major East Asian languages.

This is certainly allowed in Géarthnuns: "gwans" - "lock", "gwérabs" -
"might, strength", "gwaul" - "croak (ref. to frogs)", "gwédiz" - "set foot
in, enter".

You've made an interesting observation. Alas, I wish I knew some other
languages with these sounds that I could throw your way. Me, I've always
thought it strange that many conlangs (including my own) have [T] and/or [D]
which, I've assumed, are relatively rare out there in real lang land. For my
lang, it was because, my assuming they were rare, it added to the exoticism
back when I cared about such things and the language was first forming. "Hj"
and "gw" never even crossed my mind as exotic; they were just natural
extensions of the Géarthnuns sound system. By rights, "hw" ought to be
possible too, but orthographic constraints elbow it out of the system.

Kou