Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: CHAT: Re : Re: Tlvn, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius

From:From Http://Members.Aol.Com/Lassailly/Tunuframe.Html <lassailly@...>
Date:Wednesday, September 15, 1999, 12:06
Dans un courrier dat=E9 du 15/09/99 11:41:30  , Rob a =E9crit :

> I have a question regarding this subject. It is about two Lillooet (or > Lil'wat?) sentences: > - tl'ak ti-nk'yap-a 'the coyote goes'
japanese : koyotsu wa iku : 'the coyote goes'
> - nk'yap ti-tl'ak-a 'the goer coyotes', 'he who goes=20
is=20
> a coyote'
japanese : iku (no) wa koyotsu da : 'he who goes is a coyote'
> tl'ak =3D coyote > nk'yap =3D go > ti- =3D realis > -a =3D 3rd person > =20
koyotsu : coyote iku : go wa : topic da : be =3D whatever person
> When translating, I have to do strange things. I use the word 'goer' and =
a
> verb 'to coyote'.
funny that : i do that with japanese and colloquial french too when i=20 topicalize. you know what ? the whole trick in linguistics is to stick "-" at the right=20 spot. i mean, if japanese had the brilliant idea to write "iku wa-koyotsu-da" and=20 "koyotsu wa-iku" instead of "iku wa koyotsu da" and "koyotsu wa iku", then they would not tell verbs from nouns anymore. the whole face of the earth changes for so little. BTW , ultimate test is : "the hungry coyote goes". try that one and tell us. ------ That doesn't feel good. ------ feels best to me. ------- 'To' coyote is not a verb. ------ indeed, it's a noun. and i suggest "ti-" is not a verbal but a topic tag and "-a" is presentative/existential verb. ------ I must
> verbalise it some way, like 'to be a coyote'.
je hoeft niet. just use it as a noun like in : 'to be a coyote' ;-) does "to be" show the nature, the behaviour, the state, the diet of our furry friend ? please define in a few words the verb "to coyote". I see in the examples that
> Lillooet does not need morphology or some other instrument to change verb=
s
> into nouns and v.v..
english neither : hunt / hunt "verb" and "noun" are beyond morphology. i think we're not discussing the same topic. and french is even better : it doesn't need morphem to topicalize ! "c'est mon p=E8re le pompier".=20 there is a nice french verb "to-be-my-father". which means that french doesn't make any difference between noun and verb. french beats everyone. the perfect ial, i tell you. That makes me think that Lillooet does not really
> distinguish nouns from verbs.=20
now i know french and japanese don't either. maybe we're all aliens creeping up the planet. watch out.
> Is my interpretation right? If yes, then Tom could be right. > What alternative interpretations are possible? > =20
i dare not say.
> I have to admit, I was shocked the first time I was this. I tried to > implement it into a conlang, but failed. It is too weird to me. > =20
don't be afraid. that's only topicalization combined to (well-marketed) alienating hyphenation. american linguists are trained businessmen. everything's BIG in america. mathias