Re: ergative? I don't know...

Nik wrote :

Sally Caves wrote:
> > Nik, I wonder if you could address the same question I have about Teonaht
> > ("is Teonaht active"?).  In my "What's Teonaht Page" I label T. as
> > basically an Accusative language with a split Nominative, however, and
> > "some active tendencies."  Nobody has ever really endorsed this
> > identification--or condemned it either... or maybe I have an utterly
> > faulty memory--but it does exactly what Clinton is describing above.
> > Basically it makes a distinction between agent and participant,
>
> Okay, if I understand correctly, participant is *never* object, right?
That's the right question :-)

>
> > So: the man who falls
> > by accident is structured as a nominative differently than the man who is
> > a skydiver, or Lucifer who falls to Hell (I'm assuming, like Milton, that
> > Satan was in charge of his sin against God).
> [Snippage]
> >         This makes for a host of perception verbs like:
> >
> >                 kerem, "look, see deliberately,"
> >                 kened, "see passively."
> >
> >                 ouarem,  "listen"
> >                 ouaned,  "hear passively."
> >
> >                 etc.
> [Snippage]
> > So does this system incorporate "active language" tendencies?
>
> I think that it should be called "the Teonaht System".  ;-)  It's
> certainly an interesting system, unique as far as I know.  It certainly
> makes the distinctions made by active languages.  I don't know what
> you'd call it.  Perhaps a nominative-accusative language with an extra
> non-volitional subject case.  I think that you're "split-nominative" is
> as good as any other term.  If you want to be a little more precise,
> perhaps you could  call it something like "nominative-accusative with
> volitionality" or something like that, i.e., it's nominative-accusative,
> but also distinguishes volition.
>
> And I love the distinctions made by those verbs!
>
Yes, it's kind of unique : only ergative systems have sometime an 'unergative case'
saying 'oops, I didn't mean it' but then it's coupled with absolutive, not
accusative.

> --
> "It's bad manners to talk about ropes in the house of a man whose father
> was hanged." - Irish proverb
> http://members.tripod.com/~Nik_Taylor/Conlang/W.html
> ICQ: 18656696
> AOL: NikTailor
>
>
Mathias


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