Re: Translating Cortazar (WAS: Translating from a conlang into aconlang)

On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, FFlores wrote:

>
> _Adan_?!
>
Yes, derived from _and_ life, to life, archaic: _anad_, by simple
metathesis. One of the more embarrassing words in the language. Others are
_donher_ 'to give', _gevir_ also 'to give', _gung_ ~ _gong_ 'prince',
_man_ 'membrum virile', _ram_ 'money' _walang_ 'king' and _yenu_ 'vagina'.
Words like these have led to the theory of a sino-indo-iranian-european
substrate to the Charyan languages, held by those who still think glottochronology
has anything to do with linguistics.

>
> Could Den'wenray be thought of like a parallel to
> Latin in the Middle Ages (or nowadays)? Or does
> someone actually speak it for quotidian uses?
>
Den'wenray is mainly an administrative language. Didactic poetry
and prose can also be written in Den'wenray, and things like histories,
medical handbooks and official panegyrics. It is spoken at grand
imperial audiences. There is a low-key variant, _Den'wenray'cui_,
literally 'easy cultured language', which is used for historical
novels and other books with a more or less exalted subject.

Real poetic poetry is written in Old Charyan, which is an eastern
dialect. Plays are almost exclusivly written in the Broian stage
language, which is the language I'm going to do the translation of the
play in, but the poetry in those plays is often written in Den'wenray.
Most religous ceremonies are conducted in some variant of Archaic
Charyan, not in Den'wenray. Ancient rituals deserve an old language, is
the general opinion.

Den'wenray has influenced the common colloquial, Denden, to the point
where literary Denden uses many Den'wenray lexical items and grammatical
constructions in an attempt to appear 'cultured'. Almost all written
works have smatterings of Den'wenray, a poem here, a phrase there.
Denden is used as a lingua franca througout the whole extent of the former
Charyan empire, although there are many regional differences.

There are three branches of the colloquial language, northern, southern
and eastern. Eastern colloquial became the aforementioned Old Charyan.
Of northern colloquial I have posted a song. Neither southern nor northern
have much of a literary tradition.

> Is yetsamin'nanin'gasat a compound, or are what you
> glossed as full.soul two derivative suffixes?
>
_nanin'gasat_ is a compound. It is often difficult to decide whether a
particular phrase is a compound or a construction of a noun and one or
more adjectives, especially when you consider the attested variation
in usage. A more adventurous author could probably have put it even
shorter:

yet'na'gasat

which is a compound of a compound. Compounding rules in the Charyan
languages allow the first part to be reduced in form according to
rules which are not entirely clear, while the second part must
remain intact. Thus

na'gasat < nanin'gasat 'soulful'

yet'na'gasat < yetsamin'na'gasat 'soulful proclamation'

I choose to let the terms stand complete though.

>
>
> > Weru.brai.brai aday   nahan lohe tan Daine.
> > 2.10.10        child  go    to   GEN daine
> >
> >   In contrast to Valdyan, which doesn't have a word
> >   from 1000, Denden hasn't a word for 100: 100 is
> >   literally ten ten.
>
> You were peeping, weren't you? :)
Yes, of course...

> BTW, see my post to Irina... I made a mistake. It
> should have been "infantrymen", not "infants"!
>
In that case, substitute _canuw_ for _aday_. On the strength
of the dictionary I might also have translated it as choir-boy
or crown-prince...

>
> Tell me when you discover more about those strange
> particles (_ga_, _tan_...).
>
I'm currently working on the grammar, so more
will shortly follow, I hope. _tan_ isn't so difficult,
it's a sort of general glue. I'm starting to thing
that _ga_ is a sort of non-verbal 'to be'.


Boudewijn Rempt  | www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt