Re: CHAT: The [+foreign] attribute

Thomas R. Wier wrote:

> > > But Bordeaux and Nice have but a fraction of the (metropolitan)
> > > population of these cities -- 9,157,540 and 2,603,607
respectively.
> >
> > But are proportionally equivalent compared to the whole population
of
> > France. The importance of a town is relative to the size of the
> > country it's in, not absolute in terms of number of inhabitants.
>
> As John has already pointed out, this standard can only be
> meaningfully used within Europe, but comparisons with non-
> European countries is precisely the issue at hand.  But even
> if we did use it, your claim would be false.  According to the
> most recent French census I could find, the population of Bordeaux
> and Nice were 216,105 and 336,261 respectively out of a total
> French population of 59,225,683.   Those cities therefore constitute
> .36488% and .56776% respectively.  The most recent US census (from
> which I drew the figures for Chicago and St. Louis) gave the total
> US population as 281,421,906 (although according to one of their
> recent estimates, the population is now probably something closer
> to 288 million).   Of that number, Chicago and St. Louis constitute
> 3.25402% and .92516% respectively.  This means that they are in
> fact larger than the French cities we mentioned as a proportion
> of the total national population, and so have a larger influence
> on the US and therefore world economy and are therefore more
> practically important to know about (whatever nonpractical importance
> the French cities may have).
[...]
> Wait: needing to know all the capitals of all nations irrespective
> of size does not sound like making relative judgements about the
> need to know a city.  It sounds like it makes Rangoon every bit as
> important as Paris or London.
Of course.  Most of what it is important to know about the world is very
relative for everyone's point of view.  Absolute meterings are usually
unimportant.  And there is also an important issue about what
educational authorities in each country judge is important for their
future citizens to learn.

St. Louis might have 2.8 million inhabitants, about 1% of US population,
and probably a similar proportion of its economy, the largest single
economy in the word, countrywise.  Slightly more as, if I recall
correctly, St Louis marks the southwestern limit of the most
industrialized area of the USA (that area between Chicago, NYC, Richmond
and St. Louis).  I would bet that St. Louis' economy is larger than
Colombia's.  However, I, as most Colombians, are little related to St.
Louis.  At least directly related.  So, unless you have a personal
relationship to St. Louis (or you are a baseball fan), you would not
need to know where or what St. Louis is, here in Colombia.  Even if St.
Louis alone would consume more Colombian made products than, say, Quito,
it is unimportant in the sense that St. Louis figures is just a part of
US figures from our PoV.

From the Colombian point of view, US most important city is Miami (and
from most Colombians Florida is just South Florida), followed by New
York, Washington and Los Angeles.  Knowing where those cities are, is
all you need to know from the USA.  I would doubt, however, that most
Colombians that have cleared the school system would correctly locate
Washington D.C. in a USA map.

US state capitals.  Well.  As a Colombian you would not really need to
know them.

Our schools authorities have judge that wee need to know all country
capitals in the World, so we have one whole year (7th grade) to know all
we _need_ to know on the Americas, and another whole year (8th grade) to
know all we _need_ to know on the rest of the World.  Of course, after
you memorize all that data to clear the school exams, you will forget
the anything you don't think is important.

I don't remember going though details on USA cities.  At school they
just told us that the capital was Washington (and not New York), but
look how New York is not a city we learn from School.

Also, European cities beyond country capitals where unimportant on
geography class.  Well, on history class some non-capital cities become
relevant, but after you pass the test where they would ask the capital
of Carlomagno, you would forget where "Aquistran" (Aachen) were.

I would not think that this is a flaw on Colombia's School System.  (or
US, or Europe's, for that matter.)  Each person will get, from the atlas
or the school book they have at class, as much as they want to know and
will remember as much as they judge important.  The attitude of the
teacher will also play a role a bureaucrat in the school board cannot
predict.  Note, you learn that when you are in your earlier teens.

I like geogrphy far more today (almost 30) than when I was at school.  I
still remember a few things from those days, things that from some
reason were then interesting and got impressed.  But many of the things
I know today come from having travelled, current news, my
conlang/conculture/althistory interests, etc.

I would probably think that a US citizen who knew where St Louis is but
would mistake Bogotá as the capital of Bolivia, would be quite an
ignorant, self centered and representative dude of the USA.  But
realistically I know that this person has the same need to know where
Bogotá is as I have about St. Louis.

-- Carlos Th