Re: Partitive as default?

 --- Steven Williams <feurieaux@...> skrev:
> The partitive, as I understand it, is a sort of
> catch-all for all manner of case functions. The
> Finnish partitive case has all of the functions
> below,
> and then some:
>
> * a marker for indefinite or uncountable number
> (_some_ books)
> * a marker to indicate that the marked noun is a
> part
> of a whole (_pages_ from a book)
> * a marker for the material out of which an object
> is
> made (a book made of _paper_)
>
> And a few more I have no idea about.
>
> French has a partitive case of sorts, in its
> 'partitive articles' (de la, du, des), which have
> functions that nicely line up with the traditional
> idea of a partitive case. The functions are pretty
> much exactly as those in the Finnish examples I've
> given.
>
> Examples:
>
> *des* livres (some books)
> pages *du* livre (pages from the book)
> un livre *du* papier (a book made of paper)
>
Hmmm, "un livre du papier" doesn't sound really
French. Perhaps "?un livre en papier", but that would
be rather weird too, books being usually made out of
paper (a better example might be: "une chemise en
coton" = a cotton shirt, or "une statue de bronze" = a
bronze statue). "Un tigre de papier" (a translation
for a famous maoist expression, meaning "a paper
tiger" = an imperialist), would be OK, though.

Actually, the only "partitive" I personnaly feel like
being a partitive, as far as French is concerned, is
in expressions like:
- Donne-moi du pain, du vin, de la viande... (give me
some bread, wine, meat...)
- Certains des auditeurs s'étaient endormis (some of
the hearers had fallen asleep)

But "des livres" doesn't look like a partitive to me
(it can be translated as "books" or "some books",
depending on the context), and "les pages du livre"
rather looks like a genitive (more precisely: "the
pages belonging to the book", just like "les jambes de
Marilyn Monroe" means "the legs belonging to M.M.)...
And when I hear "une statue de bronze", I don't
understand it like a partitive neither (? a part of
the bronze ?)

I don't know about Finnish partitive.

=====
Philippe Caquant


Ceterum censeo *vi* esse oblitterandum (Me).

Reply